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Cider Digest #1198
Subject: Cider Digest #1198, 8 February 2005
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1198 8 February 2005
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
RE: Cider List -- reply to: bag-in-box for small producers? ("Dave and Je...)
Re: Cider Digest #1197, 5 February 2005 (Tom Oliver)
Bag in box (Andrew Lea)
Varieties ("Siloam Orchards")
bag-in-box packaging (Chaad@aol.com)
Re: Cider Digest #1197, 5 February 2005 (warwick)
RE: Cider Digest #1197, 5 February 2005 ("Dyer, Jonathan A.")
Variety Info ("Siloam Orchards")
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Subject: RE: Cider List -- reply to: bag-in-box for small producers?
From: "Dave and Jen Halliday" <info@brownsnout.com>
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 22:37:11 -0800
From: Dave and Jen Halliday [mailto:info@brownsnout]
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 9:57 PM
To: 'cider@talisman.com'
Subject: Cider List -- reply to: bag-in-box for small producers?
Subject: bag-in-box for small producers?
From: info@brownsnout.com (Dave Halliday)
We are looking at doing keg sales to individuals and the
Quoin Party-Pig system looks very nice.
It's for carbonated beverages only -- you use a disposable
bladder to hold the product inside a 2.5 gallon PET bottle.
The bottle lays on its side in your fridge and there is a
valve unit for dispensing. There is a pressurization pouch
which is activated when you fill the pig -- it provides a
constant level of carbonation throughout the dispensing.
Overall cost per unit is under $40 but except for the
pressurization pouch and the bladder, it is completely reusable.
Cost of the consumables is about $5
More info and a list of dealers can be found here:
http://www.partypig.com/
We will be carrying these in our homebrew store as well (open
for business this fall)
Dave and Jennifer Halliday
Brown Snout Farm and Cidery
http://www.brownsnout.com
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1197, 5 February 2005
From: Tom Oliver <troliver@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 07:08:08 +0000
Dick,
I can only echo what both you and Andrew have mentioned re. the Pomona.
Having access to and reading the old classics of the cider world, is like
being able to prise open the best cider and perry after hundreds of years,
and find it is better than you can ever imagine.
The original watercolours on display in the Cider Museum in Hereford are a
joy to look at, timeless and evocative.
Marcher Apple Network <http://www.marcherapple.net> have done many great
things by bringing lost varieties of apple to light and propagating them but
this CD of the Pomona will be a triumph.
I had the pleasure of attending a Gloucester Orchard Group
<http://www.orchard-group.uklinux.net/glos/> AGM last week and the talk was
by Dr. Barrie Juniper and dealt with his insight into the Origin of the
Apple, a topic that would make a fascinating publication in the future.
<http://www.orchard-group.uklinux.net/glos/events/20050203agm/apple-origins.
html>
Looking to the future there is a book due to be published in the spring
called "The Orchard" by Jonathan Latimer <http://www.jonathanlatimer.com/>.
One of the illustrations is of a Holmer perry pear and tree. I was lucky
enough to meet Jonathan and purchase the original painting. It possesses all
the beauty and wonder of the old Pomona and will be available to one and all
soon.
Tom Oliver
<http://www.theolivers.org.uk/page4.html>
<http://www.thethreecountiesciderandperryassociation.co.uk/>
> Subject: Re: Hogg and Bull Herefordshire Pomona
> From: rcd@talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
> Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 22:29:56 -0700 (MST)
>
> The info about being able to get a CD with material from the Hogg and Bull
> Pomona (CD 1196, note from Andrew) is exciting...there's more to it than
> you'll realize if you haven't seen the book.
>
> We were lucky enough to see one (and even touch the pages) on our last trip
> to the UK. It is a huge, thick book. (I'd guess the size but I'd be accused
> of telling a fish story.) If you appreciate fine printing and antiquarian
> books, you'd go nuts over this one. Each plate is a work of art. It's an
> incredible resource.
>
> There were only 600 copies printed. I've heard estimates of what recent
> copies have fetched in sales, generally close to five figures ($US). Few
> of us will ever get to see one, let alone own one...so the Marcher effort
> is important. (And no, I don't think it's detrimental to the originals,
> any more than would be the case with prints of a piece of fine art.)
>
> I'm also hoping that if the Marcher project succeeds, there will be similar
> efforts to produce digital facsimile editions of some of the less imposing
> but still significant works for cider...Knight, Worlidge, and such.
> - ---
> Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Bag in box
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 07:18:04 +0000
Dick Dunn wrote:
>
> Is some form of this packaging available for a sort of end-user or very
> small producer purchase? I knew of breweries using a heavy sort of bag-
> in-box packaging for take-away some years ago, but I haven't seen it
> recently. The newer style seems ideal for a still cider. I wonder why
> one wouldn't use such a package if it were available.
A manual fill version of this has been available in the UK for some
years from Vigo as the 'Manucube'
http://www.vigoltd.com/commercial/productinfo.asp?ID=77
I have worked professionally with some of the commercial systems over
the years, mostly when they go wrong!. The bags are not as robust nor
as impermeable as people would have you believe - they may not leak
liquid out, but they can readily leak air in through 'pinholes' in the
layered flexible packaging or around the seams, hence they can spoil the
wine within. That's why they are used primarily at the cheap end of the
market. I think the technology may have improved a bit in the last
decade but I would still be a little wary of it, myself, until the case
is proven!
Also if there is any overpressure from continued or renewed fermentation
(eg MLF) they will balloon out and then they _will_leak! The contents
have to be pasteurised or sterile filtered to eliminate this
possibility, AFAIK.
Andrew Lea
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Varieties
From: "Siloam Orchards" <mail@siloamorchards.com>
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 08:55:33 -0500
Does anyone have info on Coutes Jersey also the Irish variety Eccles?
Thanks, Eric, Siloam Orchards, Uxbridge Ontario Canada.
------------------------------
Subject: bag-in-box packaging
From: Chaad@aol.com
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 18:42:33 EST
This packaging is becoming more prevelant in the U.S. (AUS and N.Z. have been
putting quality wines in these for a while now). The wine trade publications
have more and more ads for these systems. My best recollection is that the
equipment to fill them runs between $1500-3000US. It is a nice system for
products that are not going to be stored for very long periods of time (air
permeability issues, but nothing serious for a year or 2). Biggest problem
is that there is a consumer belief that only inferior products come packaged
in these.
I think we will see more and more of this in the next few years.
Chad Brown
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1197, 5 February 2005
From: warwick <tokolosh@penalvagold.net>
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 13:36:04 +1030
This one is for Dick Dunn
Bag in Box is excellent for cider. I used to sell cider in pubs in the UK
in a french box called a Manucube, this is a reusable plastic outer, from
memory about 11 Litres. It has a liner which is several layers of plastic,
(but not the aluminiumised of wine casks), and improved the shelf life of
the cider enormously. The bag has a lid which is relatively easily
removed, and would last several refills with a wash and SO2 rinse. I
believe they are still available in England from Vigo. Their email address
is camilla@vigoltd.com
Most commercial wine boxes aren't easy to refill, I imagine to give
security and prevent reuse!
The tougher type bag isn't around so much anymore, they take a good
pressure, but don't collapse fully so you get air ingress earlier, and the
cider doesn't keep as well.
Warwick,
Renmark, South Australia
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Cider Digest #1197, 5 February 2005
From: "Dyer, Jonathan A." <dyerja@health.missouri.edu>
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 10:01:56 -0600
I would like to echo Dick's comments on the Herefordshire Pomona. This
is a great way all of us too poor to even dream of owning a real copy
can get our hands on an invaluable (or at least very expensive)
resource. I too had the chance to flip through a Herefordshire Pomona
on a visit to the library at the Long Ashton Research Station shortly
before it closed. It was quite an experience to see such a valuable and
important work.
I would also add that it is a brilliant fundraising idea on their part
that deserves the support of like-minded and interested parties. In
addition to reproduction of the old English texts it would also seem
reasonable for groups in the States (NAFEX maybe?) to consider similarly
themed projects as fundraisers, drawing from our pomologic literature,
allowing valuable resources to be more widely (and economically)
available.
Jon Dyer
------------------------------
Subject: Variety Info
From: "Siloam Orchards" <mail@siloamorchards.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 16:23:41 -0500
In addition to my recent submission, I am looking for any info on the
following varieties; Champagne Reinette ( France), Lemon Pippin (UK),
Pedleys Pippin (UK), Red Cinnamon ( Finland), Twistbody Jersey (UK),
White Jersey (UK).
Thanks, Eric.
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1198
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