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Cider Digest #1245
Subject: Cider Digest #1245, 5 August 2005
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1245 5 August 2005
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Cider Equipment/supplies (White Winter Winery)
Obtaining the correct SO2 level in cider (Andrew Lea)
Bottling mediumsweet cider (Andrew Lea)
More on SO2 applications ("Richard & Susan Anderson")
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Subject: Cider Equipment/supplies
From: White Winter Winery <goodmead@cheqnet.net>
Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 14:05:34 -0500
In response to the request for midwest cider equipment:
Day Equipment - www.cidermillsupplies.com
1-574-534-3491
Michigan Orchard Supply - 269-637-1111
I do not have a web address for them right off but I am sure
you could google them.
Both have press cloths in polypropylene or polyester. The polypro is
much finer and of course will result in less pulp, etc. in the finished
product, but will clog faster too. I used a canvas press cloth last year
and it was a nightmare, just one big slippery mess after about 40 bu or
so. The polypro sample I have looks remarkably like the canvas in weave,
weight, etc. but I have never used either so I cannot speak to their
effectiveness one way or the other.
I have purchased replacement poly planks & boards to swap out wood
pieces on my press from Indelco Plastics in Mpls, MN at reasonable
prices and they will ship and cut smaller pieces. They also have poly
tanks in multiple sizes and configurations.
www.indelco.com
1-800-486-6456
Good Luck!
Jon Hamilton
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Subject: Obtaining the correct SO2 level in cider
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 20:33:35 +0100
Shawn Carney wrote:
> For cider it seems standard to use sodium metabisulphite rather than
> potassium metabisulphite, why is that? Are there any negative
> effects to using potassium metabisulphite? A fellow cider digester
> informed me the BATF only allows potassium metabisulfite and sulfur
> dioxide gas in commercial production.
>
Chemically it makes virtually no difference. The sodium salt gives a
slightly higher yield of SO2 (nominal 65% vs 55%) but the difference is
trivial. I can't speak for the BATF but here in the UK either salt is
permitted. The potassium salt might be preferred if people are worried
about raising the sodium levels in cider (which are low anyway). At the
moment in the UK KMS is cheaper than NaMS. So far as I know there is no
effective difference in solubility.
> The smart way of adding SO2 seems to be using a standardized
> concoction of sodium/potassium metabisulphite of 10% (or 5%, 15%,
> ....). ........This solution will actually be somewhere around 6.74%
> SO2 (seems like it should be called a 6.74% solution).
>
> I can see this makes calculations easy if you calculate the amount of
> 10% solution needed by weight. However calculating by weight
> especially for small batches doesn't seem to be the standard, or most
> accurate way of adding SO2. For example if I have 20 lt of juice
> and I want it to have 65 ppm (same as 65 mg per liter) SO2. Then 20 *
> 65 mg/lt = 1300 mg or 1.3 g of SO2. Since the 10% solution is 6.74%
> SO2 then I would need 1.3/.0674 = 19.28 grams of the 10% solution.
> Does anybody use this method? When calculating the amount of 10%
> solution by volume, it seems to get kind of messy. Unless there is
> an easier way to calculate it than what I have been doing. I hope
> someone will tell me.
One of the key points of putting it in solution is so you can dispense
it easily by volume not mass! It's much easier to dispense 19 ml than
19 grams. The density difference is trivial. Also, don't get carried
away with illusory accuracy. The theoretical yield of SO2 from 10%
metabisulphite solution may well be 6.74% by calculation, but in
practice the salts contain variable non-stoichiometric amounts of SO2,
and the stock solution will slowly lose SO2 over time too. A good rule
of thumb is 50% yield of SO2 from either salt. So a 10% metabisulphite
solution is 5% SO2. It's that simple! This is not precision
engineering you're doing!
Andrew Lea
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Bottling mediumsweet cider
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 20:44:18 +0100
John Jeffs wrote:
> I would like to bottle the cider so it is medium sweet but if I
> bottle it before it has stopped fermenting it tends to be too fizzy
> if not explode. So, how do I bottle the cider when it is around a
> S.G. of 1015 and still fermenting but very slowly.
At SG 1.015 you cannot reliably bottle it so it will not explode, unless
it has been keeved or otherwise appropriately pre-treated. The
potential gas pressure (9 atmospheres) exceeds even that of a champagne
bottle (6 atm). Some people may recommend sorbate, benzoate or sulphite
but the only safe way is to pasteurise. There are directions for that in
the Ag-Canada booklet <
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea/ag-book.htm#19a>.
Be sure to wear strong gloves and a visor when doing this!!
Andrew Lea
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: More on SO2 applications
From: "Richard & Susan Anderson" <baylonanderson@rockisland.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 22:27:18 -0700
I think more needs to be said regarding the measurement of SO2 using either
Sodium or Potassium Metabisulfite. Solutions are useful when you do not have
a scale to measure grams.
One part per million is one milligram per liter. If you are treating 5
gallons of juice at a time at 50 or 100 ppm the numbers can be pretty small
and using a measuring spoon to approximate quantities can be intimidating to
some and having to convert to metrics is just Un-American. But do it, it
makes the process a lot easier.
Also consider that P.Metabisulfite is theoretically 57% SO2 and
S.Metabisulfite is theoretically 62% SO2. The chemists out there can weigh
in on these fractions. If you insist to sticking to English measurements, a
good rule of thumb is that 1/4 teaspoon of P.Metabisulfite per 5 gallons of
juice will provide roughly 40-45 ppm of SO2.
Having a scale I like to weigh out the chemicals of choice and use the
following formula for P.Metabisulfite.
Grams of P.Metabisulfite = Desired ppm/0.57* Liters to treat* 0.001
Yes, Federal wine laws require the use of P.Metabisulfite and I do not know
what distinction they make regarding not using S.Metabisulfite which I think
is used commonly in Europe.
Keep in mind that the ppm levels are related to the PH of the juice so that
a winemaker may use only 50 ppm because they are working with a juice with a
PH of 3.4 as opposed to cider where the juice may be 3.6 or higher. Look at
Dr. Lea's material, it has some good guidelines.
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End of Cider Digest #1245
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