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Cider Digest #1228
Subject: Cider Digest #1228, 30 May 2005
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1228 30 May 2005
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: grapples (Benjamin Watson)
Pear compatability ("Siloam Orchards")
"Grape flavoured apple" ("John C. Campbell III")
Grapple (Andrew Lea)
Re: grapples (Warren Place)
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Subject: Re: grapples
From: Benjamin Watson <bwatson@worldpath.net>
Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 07:22:56 -0400
Steve Ruch writes:
> Recently I've seen a fruit called grapple. It looks like an apple, but
> the label says it tastes like grapes.
> It was quite spendy. I am curious, but not $5 for 4 fruit curious.
> Anyone out there have any experience with this fruit?
Save your money. I have had such negative reports about these
Frankenfruits that I haven't even ventured to try one myself. But a
friend's young son in Chattanooga brought a couple home from school
last year, and they stunk up the whole house so badly that they felt
compelled to dispose of them like hazardous waste. I suppose the stench
was akin to the "grape" Bubble Yum type aroma, which is what is now
sprayed on golf courses to drive away Canada geese. The fact that it
repels them, when almost nothing else will, proves that geese are more
intelligent than we humans are.
My God, man, if you want apples, buy apples. If you want grapes, buy
grapes. But don't support with your actual hard-earned dollars the
feverish invention of a huckster. Because it was assuredly some
would-be "entrepreneur," not an honest plant breeder, who thought this
monstrosity would be a good idea for the kiddie market.
Ben Watson
Francestown, NH
------------------------------
Subject: Pear compatability
From: "Siloam Orchards" <mail@siloamorchards.com>
Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 08:23:19 -0400
Determining pear variety compatability with a particular rootstock is a
question most often posed with quince rootstock. A well known
incompatability is Bartlett on quince, hence the development of Swiss
Bartlett which is compatable. There should not be a problem when using
pear seedling roots such as Bartlett seedlings, Pyrus ussuriensis, etc.
If your bud or graft does not take, it is more likely a problem with
the procedure such immature or dried out grafting wood, faulty
workmanship, aftercare etc. The incompatability factor is more likely to
show up down the road a bit after a successful grafting job.
The scion when collected properly has some life in it; after grafting
it will often shoot out briefly even with a poor graft that has not
taken; this may be mistaken as incompatability but is more correctly the
life in the scion showing up briefly.
I am not aware of any clinical trials having been done to determine
cider pear compatability with quince. A better indication of this would
be if one had a collection of a single variety on quince that initially
took, and they all showed poor growth, weak and breaking grafts in year
two and three, while other varieties did well. (This would seem to show
that the workmanship was not at fault).
Hope this helps a bit
Eric, Siloam Orchards, Uxbridge Ontario Canada
------------------------------
Subject: "Grape flavoured apple"
From: "John C. Campbell III" <jccampb@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 10:03:44 -0400
A "nursery" up on the great lakes (who shall remain unnamed) sold me a
"Sunrise +" years before I ever thought to specialize in British cider
apples. Non-dwarf stock .... 10 years later I have just seen my first
blossom on it. But only thanks to Dr. Cummins who said "didn't _______ tell
you how to make his apple trees blossom?" and told me the trick about
undercutting branches. Needless to say the "Nursery" never did bother to,
nor did they bother to respond when I asked them about it in e-mail.
Thankfully most of my stock is from Cummins Nursery at this point and I
don't have to deal with hacks peddling trees.
I believe the tree you are talking about Steve is a Sunrise +. Our local
"Safeway" grocery store has appeared with the fruit in blister packs just
last week and I bought some out of curiosity. My wife claims to taste grape,
my reaction is "insipid" and I'd be surprised if it contributed much to the
flavour of ciders ... here's what I found out:
The "Nursery" who sold mine to me descibed it as a "Pear grape flavored
apple of unknown origin" a little investigation on the Internet turned up
the actual story: Origin:'Sunrise' was developed at the Summerland Research
Station Apple Breeding Program. Its parents are McIntosh and Golden
Delicious X PCF-3-120. This cultivar is not patented, and material can be
obtained from Warwick Orchards and Nursery, Watford, Ontario, Summerland
Research Station, Summerland, BC V0H 1Z0, Cameron Nursery, Eltopia, WA, or
Adam's County Nursery, Aspers, PA.The fruit are medium to large, uniform
oval round (similar to Gala). The fruit has an excellent sweet flavour and
not prone to skin russet. The skin ground colour is pale yellow or white
with bright red stripes going to blush on the exposed side with about 50%
red color. The flesh is white to cream in colour, and texture crisp and
juicy.The tree has moderate vigour, is extremely precocious, annual, and
very productive. Its cold hardiness and disease status is not known. 7-yr
old 'Sunrise' tree on M.9 rootstock, University of Guelph, Simcoe Campus
Harvest Date & Storage: Sunrise is a multiple pick cultivar. At least three
picks are recommended in order to harvest the fruit at optimum maturity and
colour development. In Simcoe, it matures two to three weeks before Gala (17
Aug in in 1999). 'Sunrise' storage potential is limited to about 3 weeks
after harvest with a very short shelf life. Potential Problems: It has no
known disorders. Because of its limited storage and shelf life, rapid
marketing will be essential.Tree support is important due to large crop
loads . While it is an early summer apple, it has consistently ranked the
highest in trained sensory panels held at the University of Guelph, Simcoe.
The unique/distinct colouring, excellent flavour, and high productivity make
this cultivar worthy of commercial consideration"
Subject: grapples
From: sdruch2@webtv.net (Steve Ruch)
Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 11:07:40 -0700
Recently I've seen a fruit called grapple. It looks like an apple, but
the label says it tastes like grapes.
It was quite spendy. I am curious, but not $5 for 4 fruit curious.
Anyone out there have any experience with this fruit?
Steve.
------------------------------
Subject: Grapple
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 10:10:07 +0100
Steve Ruch asked:
>
> Recently I've seen a fruit called grapple. It looks like an apple, but
> the label says it tastes like grapes.
> It was quite spendy. I am curious, but not $5 for 4 fruit curious.
> Anyone out there have any experience with this fruit?
According to http://www.grapplefruits.com/MakingGrapples.cfm these are
Washington State Fujis incubated in Concord grape flavour for a few
days. So they will have that characteristic 'methyl anthranilate'
flavour. Other (natural) sources of that flavour include satsumas and
occasionally I find myself picking it up in apples like 'Pink Lady'.
Presumably in Grapple it is reasonably overpowering! Being on the wrong
(European) side of the world I cannot speak from experience!
Andrew Lea
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Re: grapples
From: Warren Place <wrplace@ucdavis.edu>
Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 09:04:46 -0700 (PDT)
On Sat, 28 May 2005 cider-request@talisman.com wrote:
> grapples (Steve Ruch)
> Recently I've seen a fruit called grapple. It looks like an apple, but
> the label says it tastes like grapes.
> It was quite spendy. I am curious, but not $5 for 4 fruit curious.
> Anyone out there have any experience with this fruit?
>
> Steve.
Take the one of the most insipid apples (fuji) and infuse it with the
flavor of one of the worst grapes at the market (concord) and you have a
grapple. They are so strongly perfumed that I found them difficult to
eat. Cloyingly sweet too. I'm sure kids who only appretiate yummy and
sweet foods will love them.
http://www.grapplefruits.com/MakingGrapples.cfm the website isn't very
informative, but that is no matter for most of the people I have spoken
with don't care about the process to make these apples. The website
suggests natural grape flavor but I seem to remember seeing that
artificial flavor was added also. Save your money, or do like I did and
ask a prduce guy at the grocery store about the fruit. He was more than
willing to give me a sample. Since they come in PET wrapped 4-packs,
there are a small number of packs that have to be opened to remove spoiled
fruit. The remaining 3 are used for public samples.
Warren Place
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End of Cider Digest #1228
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