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Cider Digest #1172
Subject: Cider Digest #1172, 27 October 2004
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1172 27 October 2004
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Cider Digest #1171, 25 October 2004 (Mike Faul)
Cider Makers School in New York, and Orleans Reinette ("Ian A. Merwin")
Cider Pressing Cloths ("Bob Capshew")
Re: Cider Digest #1171, 25 October 2004 (ALMARAPPLE@aol.com)
A cidermaker's notes from Terra Madre ("McGonegal, Charles")
Exploding Bottles (Mike Camp)
presses for the new millennium (Dick Dunn)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1171, 25 October 2004
From: Mike Faul <carraig@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:39:28 -0700
>Subject: hard cider vs apple wine
>From: "e.broemmer" <e.broemmer@insightbb.com>
>Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 12:33:16 -0500
>
>I would like to know the difference between making cider and wine. Is it
>alcohol content? Do you do anything different?
>I live very close to an apple orchard which produces a nice fresh cider
>( no preservative). I use this to make cyser and wine with, is this good
> to start with?
>
>I like woodchuck hard cider, and would like to make some.If you could
>include specific instructions (I.e.) recipes, racking schedules and
>types of yeast. I know this is long winded but I thank you in advance.
>
>P.S. Any cyser makers out there?
>
>Sincerely, Ed in Illinois
>WWW.e.broemmer@insightbb.com
>
Yes. I made lots of cyser. In fact we are releasing our first commercial
Cyser next week along with a couple of hard ciders.
<Mike
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Makers School in New York, and Orleans Reinette
From: "Ian A. Merwin" <im13@cornell.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 20:24:29 -0400
Cider aficionados in the Northeast USA may be interested in a
three-day intensive short course that will be offered by Cornell
University on December 7-9th, 2004 at the Vinification and Food
Science facility of the New York State Experiment Station in Geneva,
NY. The course will be taught by Dr. Peter Mitchell from the UK, an
international authority on hard ciders and prize-winning cider maker
with 20 years of experience in the topic. The short course will
involve hands-on practice and instruction in the fundamentals of
cider making, and field trips to local cideries on the Finger Lakes
Wine Trail.
Course topics will include: History and definitions of cider, fruit
selection and juice composition, fruit harvesting and processing,
cider microbiology, management of fermentations, laboratory analysis
of juice and finished cider, racking and cider maturation, malolactic
fermentation, final blending, perry production, yeast selection and
handling, processing and bottling, and sensory assessment of ciders.
Registration will be limited to 15 participants. The course cost is
$475 per participant, which includes course materials and lunches,
but not lodging. Rooms are available nearby at the Lakefront Ramada
Inn in Geneva (reservations at 315-789-0400). Additional information
and .PDF versions of the registration form can be obtained by
contacting Ian Merwin <im13@cornell.edu>.
On a different note: In regard to the recent photos of "Orleans
Reinette," the pictures attached did not resemble the fruit from our
trees of Orleans Reinette--a small oblate golden apple with russet
over much of its surface, and reddish blush over yellow but no
distinct striping. Our apples of this variety are similar in
appearance and taste to Ashmead's Kernal or Court Pendu Plat. The
fruit shown in Joshua's photos are unlikely to be a reinette type, as
they lack the usual features (extensive russet and netting,
orange-red blush over yellow or golden ground color when ripe). I
could not tell from those few pictures what other variety Joshua's
favorite was (it resembled somewhat Kidd's Orange or Esopus
Spitzenberg), but it seems unlikely to have been Orleans Reinette.
- --
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((!)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Ian A. Merwin, PhD
Assoc. Prof. of Horticulture & International Agriculture
118 Plant Science Bldg
Cornell University, Ithaca, NY, USA, 14853
Telephone: 607-255-1777
<www.hort.cornell.edu/department/faculty/merwin/index.htm>
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Pressing Cloths
From: "Bob Capshew" <rcapshew@epowerc.net>
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:03:04 -0400
I use cotton cloth from Army surplus powder bag material to hold pommace
from apples and pears. The apples/pears are ground through a "garbage"
disposal then the cheeses are built in about 2" depths. Polyethelene
plates separate the cheeses and a bottle jack is used for pressure.
The system works well but I am trying to understand why the wet
(reused) press cloths do not allow as much juice to flow as the
dry cloths do. I would like to reuse the cloths to save on cleaning.
Is there a physics rule that I am missing?
Bob Capshew
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1171, 25 October 2004
From: ALMARAPPLE@aol.com
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 07:23:01 EDT
Color has a lot to do with location, fall day and night time temperatures,
nitrogen level in the tree, ect. Central, southern Michigan had a great apple
coloring season and that probably enhanced the color of those apples.
Jim Koan
Almar Orchards
------------------------------
Subject: A cidermaker's notes from Terra Madre
From: "McGonegal, Charles" <Charles.McGonegal@uop.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:26:19 -0500
My wife, Milissa, and I recently attended the Slow Foods Terra Madre
conference in Turin, Italy as delegates representing the Community of North
American Cidermakers. I wanted to send some points of interest and
reflections along to the Cider Digest community.
First, for those not familiar with Slow Foods, it is a growing global
culinary/political movement with roots in Italy. It's broad goals (In my
view, I'm sure Mr. Watson will correct me :-) are the protection, promotion
and propagation of local food/local cuisine, sustainable practices and fair
trade. One of the big Slow foods events is the Salone del Gusto - a world
food and wine exhibition. This year a producers conference was added in
parallel to the Salone. It was called Terra Madre and was attended by 5000
delegates from 130 countries representing enough groups of food producers to
fill a thick book with single paragraph descriptions.
Anyway, to get to the point, there were cider and perry makers there. It
was a good experience, I'd like to pass along a few thoughts in the wake of
the event. It will take me a while to get links and photos posted on the
website. I know very well that I'm overlooking some folks. I didn't get
some people's cards or contact info all the time. I want to post a set of
links on the Aeppeltreow website - so if I overlooked you, or you were there
and have contact info for folks I haven't mentioned (hint to Tom, Alan,
Bill, Roger and Autumn) - PLEASE send it to me!
People
US cidermakers:
Charles and Milissa McGonegal - AEppelTreow Winery
Bill Rhyne and Callie Conno - Rhyne Cyder
Roger and Ain Mansfield - Traditional Co.
Autumn Stoscheck and Jame Cummins - Eve's Cidery
Alan Foster - White Oak Cider
Other Folks that were interesting to talk to:
Norwegian Cidermakers: Asbjorn Borsheim (and two others)
Dutch Cidermakers: Guy Thornton
English Perrymakers: Tom Oliver and others.
English Cidermakers: Peter Mitchell, Charles Martell
Various fruit growers interested in cider:
Dela Erith, Director, Nova Scotia Apple Growers
Observations and Discussions
1) Quince in cider. There was a german producer at the Salone del Gusto
with a Apple/Quince most. So I've now seen and tasted a commercial quince
product. It was _very_ lightly flavored, dead dry and had a nice tannin
note. I bought a bottle, so I can taste it with a clearer head, later.
2) Hagloe Crab. Andrew Lea asked about Hagloe last year. Charles Martell,
the person who has salvaged Hagloe from extinction (the last original known
tree has been razed) spoke to the orchard workshop. Hagloe is the size of a
small Jonathan and is deep red (like Arkansas Black) over yellow. Big for a
crab, like a large Chestnut. I have photos. Tasting notes later.
3)Ice cider. Like a pommeau, but (even) more intense. Tart and rich. The
Quebec producer at the Salone (St. Denis??) uses Liberty apples, picked in
season, cold stored and pressed at about -2C. The juice is frozen in the
chilly local winter clime, and the result is sweet, tart and 11% ABV.
4) Cider practice. It's amazing, the variation in practices we cider makers
use. Bill and Callie brought some Rhyne cider to share, and Milissa and I
brought some pommeau. I know - not cider, but cider makers should really
get to know it. Talking about the differences in practice was great.
Sometimes small, sometimes bigger. I think we all learned a lot comparing
notes - and especially chatting about the vagaries of the ATF and US
regulation. It makes me thankful that I live in a state with minimal
state-level regulation - one less layer of hassles!
5) Cider wines. There is obvious market pressure for cidermakers to offer
wine-like ciders (or cider-like apple wines). Many of us were already
making apple/cider wines (as opposed to more common cider or traditional
cider) and nearly everyone seemed to be at least toying with the idea.
6) Cider community. This was a great networking event, and I think the
consensus was that we (commercial) cidermakers would like to maintain the
network established at Terra Madre. While the idea of a north american
cidermakers association was floated a couple of times, no one is stepping up
the plate to make it happen. Still, I think we'll try to establish some
cross-links on the web, and talk about what to do next.
------------------------------
Subject: Exploding Bottles
From: Mike Camp <graciespop@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:25:33 -0700 (PDT)
The other day I was working in my yard when I heard, in about a eight second
time frame, three explosions and crashing glass. My first thought was that
I was under attack or that some hooligans were breaking windows in my house.
Then I realized that the noise was comming from my garage. Of course when
I got there I found about a half-dozen bottles of cider pooling on the
ground and glass everywhere. By day's end I had lost about 7 or 8 bottles.
What the heck is going on? These were bottled in used beer bottles with
crown caps. My thoughts ran thus: 1. A storm was brewing (literally)
and I thought maybe the baro. pressure dropped so incredibly fast and low
that my bottles couldn't handle it; 2. I had primmed them with about a
tsp. of sugar upon bottling and this (along with a possible malo-lactic
fermentation) may have been too much for the bottles; 3) Of course I
may have lost a few because they were right next to each other and the
exploding bottles may have weakened the others.
Whatever happened I'm in mourning over my best batch of cider yet!
Mike
------------------------------
Subject: presses for the new millennium
From: rcd@talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:10:24 -0600 (MDT)
We were in the UK for a bit and heard about a relatively new line of
commercial presses that seem to be all the rage. (Well, we saw them
at Burrow Hill and Hecks, and we heard that Sheppy's had one, and there
was a rumour from a reliable source that Oliver might be getting one.
Don't know who else...)
Rather than the "cheese" (rack and cloth) type, it's a belt press that
is continuous feed. There's a wide belt which seems to be mainly some
sort of plastic material (it's blue) but I understand possibly with
steel reinforcing. It goes serpentine between a series of rollers with
decreasing spacing, pressing juice between belt and roller. There's
a mechanism to hold the belt against the rollers under controlled
tension.
It all looks pretty slick and conveniently automated, to where it doesn't
take a lot of hard work or constant fiddling, and for the two we saw "in
person" the cidermakers were quite happy with them. Reports are that the
yield is comparable to a good old-style press.
The presses are made by Voran (Germany); the ones we saw were imported
by Vigo (UK). Has anyone seen these "stateside"? I'm really curious to
know how much they cost (esp after getting to the US)...they're pretty
much all stainless, and not light. I think the smallest one is some 500
kg.
It seems to me that the key to the success of this type of press - but
possibly also the Achilles' heel - is the belt. It's got to be strong
as all git-out, pass juice easily, not pass much pulp, and definitely
not clog with pulp. When we saw the one at Hecks, they were pressing
some rather ripe perry-pears, and there was a bit of clogging of the belt
going on. However, there's a scrubber device on the return stretch of the
belt to clean it; the only slight complaint was having to run it so often
with difficult fruit. That was much more a complaint about the fruit than
about the press.
The reason I say it might be the Achilles' heel is that whoever makes the
belts likely has you where they want you, and if you can't get a replacement
belt, you are in a world of hurt.
Oh, another: the press at Hecks actually had a sort of final-stage washer
(seems it wouldn't do for muddy incoming fruit, but enough for one last
wash), a lift for the fruit and a mill that dropped into the feed for
the press, with a level sensor to restart the mill when the hopper for
the press got too low. Pretty much all-in-one: whole fruit in, juice
and pomace out.
This seemed like a clever amount of automation for a small press. You
would expect it in a large cider factory, but not at the scale of operation
where someone is manually dumping bags of fruit into the hopper. I like
the idea.
I realize that all this is just a "teaser" article...I hope some of the
UK readers will step in and add details. If presses like this are in the
US now too...well, speak up if you've got one!
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
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End of Cider Digest #1172
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