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Cider Digest #1169
Subject: Cider Digest #1169, 6 October 2004
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1169 6 October 2004
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Middlebury mystery (Andrew Lea)
Re: Cider Digest #1168, 3 October 2004 ()
Re: Cider Digest #1168, 3 October 2004 re: slow digests ("John C. Campbell...)
Re: Cider Digest #1168, 3 October 2004 Re: stopping fermentation ("John C....)
Quinces ?????? ("Silver Creek Cyder Co.") ("Bob Capshew")
Re: cider questions (Tim Bray)
RE: Cider Digest #1167, 2 October 2004 ("Martin Cherniske")
PME Keeving experiment ("Ira Edwards")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Middlebury mystery
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 17:56:31 +0100
Bill Rhyne wrote:
>
> My understanding is that the previous CEO of Bulmers had a grand global
> expansion strategy and part of that included the acquisition of Woodchuck
> and Cider Jack for the purposes of instant increase in market share and
> localized (US) production capacity that would cut freight and importation
> costs for their products, Strongbow and Woodpecker.
For those who do not know, Bulmers fell on very hard times and in mid
2003 they became a subsidiary of the UK brewer Scottish and Newcastle
(S&N). I understand they have sold all their non-UK operations except
Cidre Stassen in Belgium. The following was posted on <justdrinks.com>
last year. Whether this is sufficient to explain Dick's Middlebury
mystery I do not know!
"US: Bulmers sells US subsidiary
20 Jun 2003
Source: Chris Brook-Carter
Article Summary:
Additional reporting By Anne Brockhoff The UK cider company HP Bulmer
has sold its US operation based in Vermont for an undisclosed price.
Talking to just-drinks, a company spokesman said a newly created
organisation called Green Mountain Beverages, which includes several
current employees of Bulmers USA, supported by individual investors, has
taken over the business."
Andrew Lea
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1168, 3 October 2004
From: <editor@ciderandperry.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 19:16:23 +0100
(Although I'm a lurking subscriber, I've never posted here before so I hope
I'm doing it right!)
> Subject: Re: quinces
> From: Benjamin Watson <bwatson@worldpath.net>
> Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 09:27:38 -0400
>
> I know that when you press half pears and half apples, by convention
> you call it perry.
I was interested to read this - does "perry" mean that in the USA? In the UK
"perry" means what I understand you in the US would call "pear cider", i.e.
drink made from pear juice. A drink made from a mixture of apple and pear
juice has been called "pider" but I don't believe this term is in general
use!
> I've even heard of "chequers", which is what you
> call a cider when you add rowan (mountain ash) berries to the press,
> mainly for the tannins. But I've never heard a name when you add
> quinces for tannins and aromas -- Quincy? This could be a new category!
>
I'd also be interested to know whether anything drinkable can be made from
quince. Of course Quincy is a white wine from the Loire valley in France, so
a drink of that name does exist ;-)
Cheers
Paul Gunningham
The Real Cider & Perry Page www.ciderandperry.co.uk
The Scrumpy User Guide www.zider.co.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1168, 3 October 2004 re: slow digests
From: "John C. Campbell III" <jccampb@tseassoc.com>
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 15:24:26 -0400
and not to be a nosy Parker but ... where would our illustrious janitor
be off to (horseback?) in the month I'd expect he'd be working on cider,
or mead, etc.?
jccampb
cider-request@talisman.com wrote:
> Subject: Digests will be slow
> From: cider@talisman.com (Cider Digest)
> Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 01:33:05 -0600 (MDT)
>
> Your ever-indolent digest janitor is going to be traveling in October.
> Since he is rather the Luddite, and seeks out destinations which accord
> with this predilection, there may be a longer-than-usual period during
> which no digest will appear. There are provisions for a substitute
> janitor for some part of this period, but the arrangement is unreliable
> at best.
>
> In short, if you've got something to say that needs to get out between now
> and late October, speak up!
> - ---
> Cider Digest cider-request@talisman.com
> Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor Boulder County, Colorado USA
>
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1168, 3 October 2004 Re: stopping fermentation
From: "John C. Campbell III" <jccampb@tseassoc.com>
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 15:30:16 -0400
The illustrious Andrew Lea provided some most excellent advice regarding
SG, acidity ; SO2 additions and U/V sterilization utility / application,
on UKcider. In the event that some of Janitor Dick's readership does
not follow that other board (UKcider), perhaps he could be persuaded to
cut and paste his commentary on the subjects above from his sent folder?
I found the information particularly on acidity, very, very useful.
jccampb
cider-request@talisman.com wrote:
> Stopping fermentation (Andrew Lea)
> Subject: Stopping fermentation
> From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
> Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 17:59:30 +0100
>
> Tim Watson asked:
> >
> > 1st year of doing cider. 1st batch in 5 gallon fermenting vessel and 99.00%
> > cooking apples. Brew located in garden shed and ambient temp 10-15c. Started
> > off great and then stopped. Added sugar and more yeast and went great for a
> > few days but now stopped again. Coming to conclusion that no sugar left for
> > yeast and temp too low. Are we correct.?
> >
> The obvious question is - what was the SG at each stage, and how much
> sugar did you add?
>
> If you do not use a hydrometer to check this you are shooting in the
> dark. And if you did use a hydrometer then surely you will know the
> answer already?
>
> Andrew Lea
> - --
> Wittenham Hill Cider Page
> http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Quinces ?????? ("Silver Creek Cyder Co.")
From: "Bob Capshew" <rcapshew@epowerc.net>
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 21:40:32 -0400
I've made quince wine by grinding the quince in a food
disposal like I do my apples and pears. After grinding,
I put the pulp in a nylon bag, added sugar, etc. as you do
in wine making. The wine is very aromatic and tastes
fine but it not something you would drink often.
Quinces are members of the pome family along with apples,
pears and medlars. I've also made medlar wine which is also
aromatic in a different way. Quinces and medlars are fun
but I'm sticking with apples and pears.
Bob Capshew
------------------------------
Subject: Re: cider questions
From: Tim Bray <tbray@mcn.org>
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 18:15:14 -0700
In response to the fellow who wasn't sure if his cider was done fermenting,
Ben suggested:
>At this point, as I say, I would rack the cider into a new container --
>or into a pail and then back into the same vessel. Try to splash the
>cider around the container as you siphon -- or simply pour the cider
>from one container to the other. All of this will help aerate the cider
>and hopefully wake up the yeast.
Careful! If the cider is in fact completely fermented, then this procedure
is virtually guaranteed to give you vinegar!
Go spend $3 on a hydrometer and check the SG. If it is less than 1.005,
you're done - bottle the stuff (leaving no headspace). If it's higher,
then you could probably follow Ben's advice to restart fermentation. Or
you could try racking it carefully into a secondary fermenter with no
headspace at all, and wait a few weeks to see if it really is finished, in
which case you would have a finished cider with some residual sugar - which
some of us would sell our grandmothers to achieve.
Usually oxygen is to be avoided like the plague once the initial
fermentation is over, because Acetobacter will use the oxygen to convert
alcohol into acetic acid.
Cheers,
Tim
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Cider Digest #1167, 2 October 2004
From: "Martin Cherniske" <martin41@charter.net>
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 22:02:41 -0400
I find myself in the same predicament as Donald Shelton. Here in CT, the
Health Dept.has over- reacted to the possibility of E.Coli in cider and
requires that all apples for cider be verified by an orchardist to be hand
picked. In other words, the tons of "drops" on the ground can no longer be
used for cider by a commercial mill. Speculation is that the Health Dept.
here also plans to require that all cider be pasteurized in the near future.
This will require all cider lovers to begin to acquire their own equipment.
I am planning to build my own press from info obtained from your archives
but I need to find some leads on the availability of a good grinder. I
contacted one currant producer of backyard mills but because they are
already behind in orders, they didn't feel that they could provide outside
needs at this time.
I also want to thank you for mentioning the annual two day "Cider day" event
in MA. Even though I live only two hours away, I had never heard of it. I
have scheduled to attend in Nov., hoping to be able to pick up info on back
yard cider making.
Thanks,
Martin Cherniske martin41@charter.net New Milford, CT
------------------------------
Subject: PME Keeving experiment
From: "Ira Edwards" <ira_j_e@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 21:59:13 -0800
Hopefully this makes it into the digest, I seem to be having problems
with sending TEXT ONLY messages from outlook to the forum...
Gary Awdey suggested that I share what has happened so far in my keeving
attempt, with the hope that it might create more discussion and maybe
some of you might lend some suggestions for me and others.
==========================
After receiving the PME sample, I made 40 gallons of apple juice on
Sunday and used the PME to try and keeve 15 gallons. I have a couple of
questions for you on procedures. I used the Crystalzyme diluted 100:1
in water and misted my pomace as I ground it. The few remaining mL went
into the juice of my blend. I have added a pectic enzyme (the generic
stuff) to my pomace to increase my juice output for the last 2 years and
I have gotten about 10% more juice out of my 8 ton birch wood rack and
cheese press. This trial was good for that as well, as I got even
better juice extraction than usual ( but we had a great summer and that
may have contributed).
So I added the CaCl to the juice after 8 hours at 45F and it gelled up
immediately, quite the chemical reaction as when I mixed up the CaCl in
some juice before adding it to the vat. My sterilized jar heated up so
much when mixing the CaCl and a bit of juice that it got uncomfortably
hot in like 10 seconds. Upon adding this to the vat of 15 gallons of
juice it raised the temp 0.2 degrees C. Not enough to kill off any
yeast, but quite the exothermic reaction.
My question is on bubbling with nitrogen to raise the chapeau bruin
(sp). In the last few years, my natural yeast ciders took 1-2 weeks to
start really fermenting, and by settling out the nutrients I am
imagining that it will take even longer.I have read about Bubbling N2
gas to raise the brown gel mass. Do you have any tips? I have the
juice in a covered open fomenter, but I'm not sure if the juice will be
safe for a few weeks, even in my clean fermenting area and wanted to
speed the process along to seal it up in my stainless 55Litre keg to
ferment. I have a Nitrogen tank and regulator, and a stainless
oxygenating wand for my beer making.
Assuming all of this turns out well, I'll send Gary some bottled samples
next fall for his tastings. This blend has always made my best cider so
I'm going for it on a trial size for the keeving experiment. I made and
equivalent amount of cider the way I've done in the past and the rest of
my other apples will go into other blends for trying new recipies. I'm
going to press another batch next weekend while working on finishing up
my ski/gear shed....
Thanks again to Gary for the sample and for any help the rest of you can
provide
Ira Edwards
Anchorage, Alaska
ira_j_e AT hotmail DOT com
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1169
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