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Cider Digest #1164
Subject: Cider Digest #1164, 17 September 2004
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1164 17 September 2004
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
RE: Cider Digest #1161, 4 September 2004 ("J. K. Davis")
Re: Any suggestions on these apple varieties? ("chris horn")
a word on juicer for small cider production ("Diane Gagnon")
Cider Making Classes ("Drew Zimmerman")
Perry (fruit and beverage) questions ("McGonegal, Charles")
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Subject: RE: Cider Digest #1161, 4 September 2004
From: "J. K. Davis" <andiroba@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:15:35 -0400
OK, I've been persuaded to try in-bottle fermentation to get the carbonation
I want in my cider. Champagne yeast to dryness - and then? Sugar in the
fermenter just before bottling, or in the bottle? A naive question, I
suppose, but I made cyser last year, with honey added to each bottle at
bottling time. I got a nice light carbonation, but it was very hard to
control - some bottles were more carbonated than others.
Any suggestions?
Thanks so much for all your comments over the last several months. I've
learned a lot about cider making!
Jan Davis
Weasel Hill Farm
Amissville, VA
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Subject: Re: Any suggestions on these apple varieties?
From: "chris horn" <agent_strangelove@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 13:39:55 -0700
I see that you have gotten good info on the rest of the cultivars except for
Hidden Rose. I believe that this is the red fleshed one you are talking
about. I don't know anything about it other than the fact that the local
nursery had a bunch of them they were getting rid of them at half price
earlier this summer. I was tempted to get a couple for the hell of it...
Everyone of them had anthracnose bad.... I passed on that.... I don't know
if Hidden Rose is more prone to get this but you may want to be aware....
There was a cider company in Quebec that was making pretty good cider out of
a red fleshed apple. It had a nice pink hue to it.... I can't remember the
brand but the cider place wasn't too far off the highway between Sherbrooke
and Montreal....
Chris Horn
Scappoose Oregon
'The great world powers have not yet found the weapon to destroy dreams'
-Subcommandant Marcos
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Subject: a word on juicer for small cider production
From: "Diane Gagnon" <gagnond@endirect.qc.ca>
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:02:35 -0400
The " Breville " juicer is quite impressive as to quantity / time =
output. My 2004 production ( 10-15 gallons) has begun with 140 lbs of =
Geneva apples, yealding about 1/3 of pretty clear juice the whole =
process taking about 3-4 hrs . Easy to clean up, and to handle the =
pomace. Hope cider quality follows .......
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Making Classes
From: "Drew Zimmerman" <drewzimmer@comcast.net>
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:14:36 -0700
WSU Mount Vernon will again be offering two weeks of cider making
classes this fall, November 8th through the 19th. The two classes are
"Cider Making - Principles and Practice" and "Cider Making - Science,
Technology and Quality Control" and will again be presented by Peter
Michell, Worcestershire, UK. Detailed information in available at
http://mtvernon.wsu.edu/frt_hort/fruit_horticulture.htm
------------------------------
Subject: Perry (fruit and beverage) questions
From: "McGonegal, Charles" <Charles.McGonegal@uop.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 10:50:12 -0500
Good morning all,
I recently acquired a small sample of 14 different perry pears. I have all
of them growing in our orchard, but this year I finagled some real fruit to
try. (In anticipation of that day when I will be able taste my own - if I
still have tastebuds by then.)
I made hardness, flavor, bouquet and Brix observations. I was not able to
check pH, titrable acidity or tannins. I will be checking pH and TA on the
combined juices.
As I anticipated, many of them are essentially 'crab pears'. Hurray!
Imagine something like a wonderfully balanced sweet/sharp (think Ashmeads,
Margil, or Cox's) with tannins that grab your cheek linings and then fade
back to let the fruity aftertaste through. Then go plant a few Thorn pears
for your grand kids.
But looking at the various states of ripeness that I received them in, I
have some real questions about perry production.
I believe that these pears were tree ripened. Not the best practice for
dessert pears - but I didn't have any choice this time. Many of the pears
were hard as rocks, even though they had dark brown seeds, no overt starchy
taste and a Brix from 13-16. Other varieties had a mix of hard pears, and
specimens that had turned brown from the core out. The brown fruit was soft
and very juicy, but had a stong odor that was very unpleasant to me. Sort
of like a bad Jolly Rancher candy. One cultivar was turning brown in spots
througout the flesh, while still being rock hard by external observation.
Cider apples are swept from the orchard floor in England. I can't imaging
that they would treat pears differently. Does anyone know what traditional
practice actually was/is?
SO...
If perry pears are hand picked early, and sweated/bletted (like medlars) off
the tree - do they still turn brown and develop that sickly flavor and
bouquet?
Do perry pears tend to fall when still hard - and so the time to milling
becomes critical? I've always assumed that the milling times in Luckwill &
Pollard were general 'maximum storability' times, not 'wait this long, no
less or more'.
Is the brown, intensly flavored state what they mean by 'highly colored' -
and it's just my youth, inexperience and American-chauvinism that makes me
think the fruit is rotten?
Lastly, I have high-res digital pics of all 14 cultivars, and will put them
on my website if there is any interest. Let me know.
Charles McGonegal
AEppelTreow Winery
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End of Cider Digest #1164
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