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Cider Digest #1171
Subject: Cider Digest #1171, 25 October 2004
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1171 25 October 2004
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Digest back to "normal" (Cider Digest)
Ciderday in Western MA, Cider Pressing demo in Metro West ("Jay Hersh aka ...)
hard cider vs apple wine ("e.broemmer")
Orleans Reinette? ("Joshua Van Camp")
Perry Juice Follow-up ("McGonegal, Charles")
quick cider making report (Alistair Bell)
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Subject: Digest back to "normal"
From: cider-request@talisman.com (Cider Digest)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:04:12 -0600 (MDT)
Your wandering janitor has returned; the Cider Digest should return to
its usual "schedule" of appearing every few days.
Dick
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Subject: Ciderday in Western MA, Cider Pressing demo in Metro West
From: "Jay Hersh aka Dr. Beer(R)" <jsh@doctorbeer.com>
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 15:01:29 -0400
I've been to a few of the previous years Ciderday events and they are
definitely a good time.
The ability to taste many different heritage varieties is really nice. Some
of the talks are good too.
For anyone in the Boston vicinity our fermentation hobby club called BEERZ
www.beerz.org is planning a cider pressing demo on Oct 25th. There is info
at the calendar on the BEERZ club site. Basically we'll be doing 5 gallons.
Pulping will be on my custom insinkerator pulping rig (in case anyone wants
to see how these actually work) followed by a pressing on my 30L wine
press. Tastings of past year's ciders will be going on. Apple varieties are
still TBD...
BTW the demo location is in Lincoln which is between Concord & Lexington
and about 2 miles from Walden Pond.
cheers,
Jay
Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalts
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Subject: hard cider vs apple wine
From: "e.broemmer" <e.broemmer@insightbb.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 12:33:16 -0500
I would like to know the difference between making cider and wine. Is it
alcohol content? Do you do anything different?
I live very close to an apple orchard which produces a nice fresh cider
( no preservative). I use this to make cyser and wine with, is this good
to start with?
I like woodchuck hard cider, and would like to make some.If you could
include specific instructions (I.e.) recipes, racking schedules and
types of yeast. I know this is long winded but I thank you in advance.
P.S. Any cyser makers out there?
Sincerely, Ed in Illinois
WWW.e.broemmer@insightbb.com
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Subject: Orleans Reinette?
From: "Joshua Van Camp" <jvancamp@tc3net.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 13:53:04 -0400 (EDT)
I had a question for those out there that know their apples. I was out
last week to the Treemendus Tree Farm in Eau Claire, MI. They have a wide
selection of antique varieties for sale in the market. I picked up quite
a few different types and one of the ones that I enjoyed the most was the
one that they had labeled Orleans Reinette. It was a great apple. I
started doing some more reading though and it seems as though the
descriptions that I have seen in several places are different from the
apples that I picked up at Treemendus.
Here is a link to a picture on their website:
http://www.tree-mendus.com/apple_pics/L-r/pages/Orleans-Reinette.htm
Here are a couple of pictures of one I brought back from Treemendus. The
first two pictures are taken without flash with a lighting that gives it
somewhat of a yellow hue. The second two pictures are with flash on.
http://www.msu.edu/~vancamp2/apple/orleansreinette1.jpg
http://www.msu.edu/~vancamp2/apple/orleansreinette2.jpg
http://www.msu.edu/~vancamp2/apple/orleansreinette3.jpg
http://www.msu.edu/~vancamp2/apple/orleansreinette4.jpg
Here are some examples that I found on a few different places on the
Internet that seem to be different from the one that I have from
Treemendus.
http://www.msu.edu/~vancamp2/apple/orleansreinette5.jpg
http://www.msu.edu/~vancamp2/apple/orleansreinette6.jpg
These apples seem to match the descriptions that I found. Michael Clark?s
?Apples: A Field Guide? describes ?dull green in the base color (which
turns golden), a faint flush of orange-red and indistinct broken red
stripes. On the skin there is a mottled texture of russet with large
lenticel dots.? The description in the ?New Book of Apples? says ?Slight
orange red flush, short red stripes, over gold, many russet dots, netting,
patches.? Both sources mention that they are sometime confused with the
Blenheim Orange. I would say that all of the examples that I brought back
were darker then the Blenheim Orange samples I also purchased.
The Orleans Reinette apples that I brought back are much redder then I
would think they would be based on the descriptions I have read in the two
above mentioned sources and elsewhere on the internet. Does anyone have
experience with this apple being this dark?
I would not normally be so concerned if were not for the fact that I
enjoyed the apple I believe to be Orleans Reinette so much. I would like
to plant one if I can confirm that was what I ate. Anyone know where I
can get it on M7 or G30 stocks?
Any comments?
- -Josh Van Camp
jvancamp@tc3net.com
------------------------------
Subject: Perry Juice Follow-up
From: "McGonegal, Charles" <Charles.McGonegal@uop.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:43:51 -0500
Just to follow up on my perry experiment...
I managed to get ahold of a few perry pears this year. Not from our orchard
- - but the same varieties. I posted a link to pictures earlier. The blend
was a gimmish with large doses of Yellow and Hendre Huffcap, Butt, Gin,
Winnals Longdon and a smattering of others. The pomace was ground upon
receipt of the pears (they were going bad rapidly) and it finally got
pressed this weekend.
The resulting sweet perry was: 13.4 Brix, pH=2.8, titratable acidity = 8.5
g/L as tartaric.
For comparison, since we pressed 870 gallons for common perry this weekend;
Bosc: 14.0 Brix, pH = 4.2, titratable acidity = 1.6 g/L
Comice: 12.0 Bix, pH = 3.4, titratable acidty = 3.2 g/L
I back blended the perry mix with the comice/bosc mix about 2:1. It's
destined for 'poireaux'. Sadly, there's not enough to release commercially.
But I'll tell you all how it turns out <evil laugh>.
To compare the juices qualitatively:
Bosc: dead sweet, but obvious soft tannins. Has distinct 'skin' note hiding
in all the sugar and creamy texture. Very scented - musky.
Comice: sweet, but tangy compared to bosc. Very aromatic, lively flavor,
but muted aroma.
Perry blend: tart, easy to drink as 'sweet perry'. As complex and tart as a
sweet/sharp cider (Golden Russet/Roxbury Russet/Ashmeads Kernal, etc) but
not so heavy. Pear drop, candy like notes in both flavor and bouquet. Very
not-Barlett like, followed by spicy hints. Finishes with lingering hard
tannin note - papery or wood-like. Tannins in fresh juice might persist a
little too long for comfortable drinking. Bouquet intense, but aromatic
rather than musky.
Both the bosc and the comice juice browned so raidly that it looked liked a
typical cider coming off the press. The bosc was very dark. The perry
juice stayed pale straw yellow - even the sample pulled for testing that
sat out all day long. I've seen some crab juices do that, too.
Charles McGonegal
AEppelTreow / PerruTreow Winery
------------------------------
Subject: quick cider making report
From: Alistair Bell <albell@shaw.ca>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:49:40 -0700
last Sunday we started this years cider. Collected a lot of apples (for
us), 3 large fish totes (used the tractor to lift them) of apples,
mostly Spartans and Lord Lambourne, a smattering of Red Delicious and
Jonagold, some unknown greens and a few small hedgerow apple tree
fruits.
I know, not the best apple mix, but its what we have. Crushed and
pressed on a very rainy afternoon, made 205 liters and only got through
half of the apples. The old "musermax" electric pulper worked fine, but
the bottle neck, of course, was the old basket press.
Much fun was had with friends and inlaws, everything lubricated well
with last years cider and lots of homemade "calvados" (that's another
story).
I am tempted to rebuild the musermax to be more like the fancy new
model shown here at bottom of page:
http://www.stpats.com/crushers.htm
I can do that... but I know that I ought to, and will, make a "cheese"
type press. Would love to be able to really load up a press and get
better extraction.
Anyhow, gave away 20 liters of juice to helpers, and lightly sulfited
185 liters in my food grade 225 liter plastic barrel (I do closed
primary fermentation these last few years).
Made a starter with 12 liters juice, using S.c. bayanus yeast...yes, I
know, but I forgot to order specialty Wyeast strain.
Added some ammonium sulfate (45g) and a pinch of Thiamine hydrochloride
to main tank.
Pitched starter into main tank after 24 hrs. starting gravity is 1.062,
pH is 3.77 (need more acid apples), and I aerated the culture for 2
hours with airpump and airstone.
Temp right now in the barn is 12 C, so i placed an oil filled radiator
type electric heater below tank (tank elevated for ease of transfer
later) and insulated tank with old sleeping bag. This is just to raise
temp of juice a few degrees to get the culture started quickly, has
worked well in the past. Will turn off heat when airlock bubbling.
I love this part of the process, its much like my day job (bacterial
fermentation) and i enjoy the physical process of making the juice.
cheers,
Alistair Bell
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End of Cider Digest #1171
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