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Cider Digest #1165
Subject: Cider Digest #1165, 21 September 2004
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1165 21 September 2004
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
3rd Last Call for PME Samples ("Gary Awdey")
Re: a word on juicer for small cider production (CD #1164, 2004-09-17) (Ro...)
Perry Photos ("Milissa A McGonegal")
RE: Perry Pears ("Ira Edwards")
in-bottle fermentation (Michael Arighi)
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Subject: 3rd Last Call for PME Samples
From: "Gary Awdey" <gawdey@att.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 19:30:50 -0400
Response to the offer of samples of pectin methyl esterase (PME) for keeving
has been better than expected. At the moment there are over a dozen
cidermakers in ten states planning trials this year (plus a couple in
Australia and New Zealand if the customs folks will allow the samples to go
through). There should be some interesting discussion over the next year.
To give everyone who might be interested a chance to participate (including
those who might of a more skeptical nature) I'll extend the invitation to
request a free sample and dosage recommendations for a while longer. It
would be nice to have some skeptics and traditionalists participate in
trials so some results of side-by-side comparisons from the same pressings
could suggest not only what can be accomplished with PME but also give a
better idea of when it is either unnecessary or carries specific observable
drawbacks. By sharing the results of our different experiences and
perspectives hopefully a fairly objective picture will emerge fairly
quickly. The idea is to give cidermakers enough information to make
informed decisions about what they might want to try in the future (and of
course have some fun in the process). Please submit requests to me at
gawdey@att.net and be sure to include how much cider you'd want to try
keeving with PME (so far the trial batches range in volume from 5 to 150
gal) and the address to which you'd like the sample sent.
Gary
------------------------------
Subject: Re: a word on juicer for small cider production (CD #1164, 2004-09-17)
From: Ross McKay <rosko@zeta.org.au>
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 09:18:02 +1000
Diane Gagnon wrote:
>The " Breville " juicer is quite impressive as to quantity / time
>output. My 2004 production ( 10-15 gallons) has begun with 140 lbs of
>Geneva apples, yealding about 1/3 of pretty clear juice the whole
>process taking about 3-4 hrs . Easy to clean up, and to handle the
>pomace. Hope cider quality follows .......
I second that ... mostly! I find that it clogs up with pomace after each
and every kilo of apples or pears. However, it soon just becomes part of
the routine to clear the workings and continue. It certainly has an
advantage over many in that it can take whole (small to medium sized)
fruit at once, and does a pretty good job of extracting juice and
spinning off pomace. (Have been just composting the pomace, but now plan
to add water and ferment to get apple cider vinegar :)
But we bought our juicer to make drinking juice from, and I just pushed
it further to get juice for cider / perry etc. If one was to set out to
buy something for extracting more than a few gallons of juice, I'd
reckon that a shredder and press would be better.
cheers,
Ross.
- --
"The lawn could stand another mowing; funny, I don't even care"
- - Elvis Costello
------------------------------
Subject: Perry Photos
From: "Milissa A McGonegal" <mam@aeppeltreow.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 22:19:05 -0500
I've put PDF files of the perry photos I took on the AEppeltreow
website.
http://www.aeppeltreow.com/Perry_Collection_Thumbs.pdf
http://www.aeppeltreow.com/PerryPears_large.pdf
The thumbnail file has the variety names. It's 65K. The big photos
total almost a megabyte - the pictures are in the same order as the
thumbnail file. This was the quickest path to getting the photos
posted.
Please excuse the quality of the focus in some of the pics.
Charles McGonegal
AEppelTreow Winery
(Or should it be PerruTreow?)
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Perry Pears
From: "Ira Edwards" <ira_j_e@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 01:02:35 -0800
I have access to 15 different trees of 'crab' pears, as Charles
mentions. probably 50+ bushels (older trees) some are quite sweet and
juicy, but most are quite hard, while appearing to be ripe.
I am wondering about grinding these pears. I have a modified garbage
disposal as a mill and most apples go through just fine. Some crab
apples have trouble as they don't have enough free juice to flow
through. I want to try to make perry this year, but if grinding will go
like th crab apples, I need to find a better way to processs them.
Charles, I would love to se the pics of the varieties and the sizes that
you have. The pears that I can pick come from an elderly orchardist
whose records have evaporated and does not remember what types they are.
Thanks all,
Ira Edwards
Anchorage Alaska
------------------------------
Subject: in-bottle fermentation
From: Michael Arighi <calzinman@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 21:51:32 -0700
On Fri, 2004-09-17 at 14:11, Jan Davis wrote:
> OK, I've been persuaded to try in-bottle fermentation to get the carbonation
> I want in my cider. Champagne yeast to dryness - and then? Sugar in the
> fermenter just before bottling, or in the bottle? A naive question, I
> suppose, but I made cyser last year, with honey added to each bottle at
> bottling time. I got a nice light carbonation, but it was very hard to
> control - some bottles were more carbonated than others.
>
> Any suggestions?
I think you can blame that problem on having primed with honey. IIRC,
honey has fermentation-inhibitors in it (so it won't ferment in the
hive), which serve to give you very inconsistent results with a
(re-)fermentation. Boiling it and adding yeast nutrients (I used vitamin
B-12, if I remember) can help.
However, you can finesse the issue entirely by using sugar, preferably
inverted (to avoid the sourness of invertase). I'll preface this by
saying I'm not a chemist, but this is my understanding of the process: I
usually make up priming sugar in solution, boiling for about 5 min. with
either lemon juice or some other form of acid (usually citric, but could
be tartaric/malic, or blend). The point is to break the double-bond of
the disacchride and reduce it to monosacchrides. If you don't, the yeast
will do it for you enzymatically, forming invertase, but you get the
organoleptic results of invertase, too--sourness.
I mix the resulting simple syrup into the full batch and agitate
thoroughly, both to disperse the solution and the remaining yeast evenly
and to add a little oxygen.
Seems to work fine for me, with pretty consistent and repeatable
results. I'm purposely not giving the proportions, as I don't have my
references handy by the computer and don't want to mislead, but I can
verify it, if it's an issue.
- --
Michael Arighi <calzinman@earthlink.net>
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End of Cider Digest #1165
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