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Cider Digest #1163
Subject: Cider Digest #1163, 13 September 2004
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1163 13 September 2004
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re:Any suggestions on these apple varieties? (Tim Bray)
Re: Cider Digest #1155, 10 August 2004 (The Lambourn Valley Cider Company)
Apple crusher/masher/shredder ("Martin Stokes")
What to Plant? ("Richard & Susan Anderson")
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Subject: Re:Any suggestions on these apple varieties?
From: Tim Bray <tbray@mcn.org>
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 13:54:13 -0700
I grow most of these, so I'll offer what little I know. It would help if
you could tell us where you are located, or at least what USDA climate
zone. I'm in Zone 9, so my climate is a little different than most; in the
fog belt, with cool damp summers. Scab is a major problem here, and
sometimes I don't get enough chill for some varieties. Others on this list
may be able to advise on cold-hardiness (my low temps are in the high 20s!).
Looks like a great blend!
>Ashmead's Kernel
Vigorous, upright grower. (Train as open-center tree.) Doesn't seem to
need much chill. Bears heavily in good years, tends to
biennialism. Fruit is large; thin fruit until branches are
well-developed. (I never got around to thinning this year and have broken
branches as a result.) Appears to be resistant to scab. Ripens early to
mid-season (early October here). Falls off when ripe. Doesn't keep all
that well if fully tree-ripened. Very sweet when full-ripe and sweated.
>Cox's Orange Pippin
Weak grower, spreading habit, wide crotch angles (train as
center-leader). Low-chill. Moderately scab susceptible. Slow to
produce. Ripens early (first of October for me). Fruit cracking is a
problem for me. Despite the wonderful flavor, I am reworking my Cox's over
to other varieties. Karmijn de Sonneville might be a better choice - fruit
quality is similar but larger, tougher, less prone to scab and cracking,
and the tree is very vigorous. Both fall off when fully ripe. Sweet and
sharp.
>Foxwhelp
Hmmm... I think my Foxwhelps are not true, they are "Fauxwhelps" as Dick
says! Slow-growing trees, train as center leader. Extremely large
fruit. Ripens very early, mid-Sept. Moderate chill requirements. Doesn't
keep. Falls off when ripe. Sweet.
>Grimes Golden
An excellent tree, vigorous and spreading, train as open-center and give it
room. Precocious and productive, bears well every year. Low chill
requirement. Not scab susceptible, but very susceptible to powdery
mildew. Ripens mid-season (mid-Oct here) and hangs onto the tree quite
well. Turns lemon-yellow when ripe, very pretty on tree. Keeps fairly
well. Sweet and sharp.
>Kingston Black
An interesting tree to grow; its growth habit varies from tree to tree. I
have best luck training them as open-center trees. Moderately vigorous, no
chill problems, only moderately scab susceptible. Thin fruit in good years
to 2 per cluster. Drops quite a few before ripe. Ripens very early,
mid-September here. Doesn't keep well. Fruit size variable, small to
medium. Very bitter and sharp.
>Pitmaston Pineapple
No experience.
>Porters Perfection
Compact tree with upright habit; grow as open-center and prune carefully
when young to encourage branching and spreading. Not a vigorous
grower. Bears very heavily and needs thinning. Small fruit, hangs onto
tree very well. Ripens late Oct. Somewhat susceptible to powdery
mildew. Keeps well. Bittersharp.
>Yarlington Mill
Moderately vigorous and spreading habit, train as open center or modified
center-leader. Low chill. Heavy bearer, medium-size fruit, very aromatic,
hangs onto tree fairly well. Not particularly scabby. Ripens late Oct
here. Doesn't keep well - sweat for a month at most. Bittersweet.
>Hidden Rose
Never heard of it!
>Golden Russet
Extremely vigorous - give it plenty of room or grow it on dwarfing
rootstock; mine are on M111 and are already about 12 feet tall (5 years
old). Spreading habit, wide crotch angles, can be grown as open center or
center-leader. Precocious and productive. Thin fruit or support branches
when young. Low chill. Not susceptible to scab or mildew. A great
tree! Fruit medium size, ripens very late (early November here). Drops a
few before they are ripe; be patient. Keeps well. Very Sweet and sharp
when picked, sharpness mellows in storage. I made an 8% ABV cider from
these last year. In a hotter climate it might have been 10%!
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1155, 10 August 2004
From: The Lambourn Valley Cider Company <sales@lambournvalleycider.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:51:44 +0100
>Subject: Maturation of cider
>From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
>Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 21:06:49 +0100
>
>Tim Bray wrote:
>
>> My ciders typically improve dramatically around the first of September, and
>> continue to improve for a few months. After that they seem to
>> stabilize.
>
>I'm really pleased to hear you say that Tim. My recent experience with
>'wild yeast' fermentation followed by MLF is just the same. In fact, it
>makes me wonder why so many cider competitions (at least in the UK) are
>held in May when 'real' ciders are nowhere near at their best. Even our
>cider tasting day at Long Ashton was always held in June. It makes me
>think that the traditional timings are based on other aspects of the
>agricultural year and have no real relation to cider quality. Either
>that, or it's the fact that much poorly made 'traditional' cider in
>wooden casks starts to go badly acetic in the summer so the spring was
>the best (or the 'least worst') time to taste it.
Sorry to be a bit late on this, but I think the other reason for holding
cider and perry competitions at the beginning of May is so that the publicity
for the winners will lead to increased sales that summer. I believe that is
why CAMRA hold their National Cider and Perry Championships at the
beginning of May.
I have often held that August would be a better time, and the best venue
would be the Peterborough Beer Festival, which is the second-biggest CAMRA
festival in the country, and is also in the east of England. This would
help to take the perception of cider away from the West Country.
I find that I sell more cider later in the summer than earlier.
- --
Roy Bailey - Proprietor,
The Lambourn Valley Cider Company
(Real cider from the Royal County)
The Malt House, Great Shefford
HUNGERFORD, Berks RG17 7ED, UK
Tel: 01488 648441
URL: http://www.lambournvalleycider.co.uk/
(Please reply in plain text rather than HTML, if possible.)
------------------------------
Subject: Apple crusher/masher/shredder
From: "Martin Stokes" <Mstokes@apollo.umenfa.maine.edu>
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:16:12 -0500
I have made cider for many years but find difficulty in obtaining
juice made from a satisfactory blend of apples in my area. There is
a lot of Mac/Cortland etc. but little else, and it is expensive. Last
winter I acquired a pneumatic cider press in the hope that I might
be able to purchase specific varieties to produce my own sweet
cider for fermentation.
Unfortunately I have no way of crushing the apples prior to pressing
and wish to get input from my fellow cider-makers on the best types
of crushers, possible sources, and typical prices. I would prefer
110 volt models rather than 220 as I have outside 110 outlets so I
can do all of this in the driveway.
Any help would be most appreciated.
Martin Stokes
Old Town, ME
stokes@maine.edu
------------------------------
Subject: What to Plant?
From: "Richard & Susan Anderson" <baylonanderson@rockisland.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 12:55:22 -0700
>I have either planted or am getting ready to plant the following varieties
>for my cider orchard. Is there any growing/fruiting/care characteristics
>specific to these verities that I might need to be aware of? I figure
>someone might have some insights....
You have a lot of varieties which will give you sufficient acidity,
(Foxwelp, Ashmeads's, Cox, Kingston & Porters) a bittersweet(Yarlington) and
I am not familiar with the rest. Assuming they are all on the same rootstock
I would suggest roughly 40-45% be bittersharp or sharp (<ph 3.8) and the
balance sweet or bittersweet or sweet (ph>4.0).
Keep the nitrogen in balance, the Foxwelps & Cox are prone to bitterpit if
there is a lot of free nitrogen in the soil.
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End of Cider Digest #1163
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