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Cider Digest #1159
Subject: Cider Digest #1159, 30 August 2004
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1159 30 August 2004
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Inert gass blanketing of fermenting and non fermenting cider ("Trevor Fitz...)
ripeness testing (Dick Dunn)
Pop bottles vs glass (Andrew Lea)
CO2 blanketing (Andrew Lea)
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Subject: Inert gass blanketing of fermenting and non fermenting cider
From: "Trevor Fitzjohn" <tfitzjohn@pacificradiology.co.nz>
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 07:16:50 +1200
Further to the discussion of CO2 and argon for blanketing cider, are
there any other gases that can also be used. Argon is very expensive in
New Zealand. As a doctor I can get cheap bottled nitrogen (N2) which I
have used with success so far. Am I being lucky? Or are there others
using it? Are there any other inert gasses to consider? Regards Trevor
------------------------------
Subject: ripeness testing
From: rcd@talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:43:30 -0600 (MDT)
I've got an assortment of cider apple varieties, and I'm in an area where
there's very little information on when these varieties might ripen, on
top of which the climate is unusual. So I've been faced with trying to
figure out how to test the fruit for ripeness, to be sure I'm not picking
too soon.
The typical tests mentioned in amateur cidermaking books are:
* Are the seeds brown? (What I've found is that if the seeds aren't
fully brown, then yes, the fruit isn't ripe...BUT if they are brown
the fruit may still not be ripe.)
* Does the apple taste ripe? (What the heck does that mean? Every
variety tastes different! Especially bittersweets and bittersharps,
it's easy to be mis-led. Maybe someday I'll know, but trying to
learn the tastes at the same time I'm taste-testing is really
begging a question.)
* Does the apple pick easily? Not a good test--some apples cling for
dear life almost to the time of overripeness; others "self-harvest"
in our winds starting weeks before they're actually ripe.
Beyond that, of course you can measure sugar and acid, but that's a LOT
of work for multiple tests over time, of multiple varieties.
Last fall in a cider class, Peter Mitchell mentioned just using an iodine
test: put a bit of tincture of iodine on a cut piece of fruit. Where it
turns gray-black, there is unconverted starch indicating ripening isn't
complete. If it stays yellow-brown, it's not reacting to starch. I played
around with this and noticed that in a nearly-ripe fruit you'll see the
blackening out toward the skin when the inside doesn't show any (i.e.,
ripening from the core toward the skin). I swapped notes with Andrew
Lea off-list; he says that the test is commonly used by commercial growers,
and that the differential ripening I saw is known and understood. That
can even give you an indication, with an unripe apple, of how close it
is.
BUT...I hunted around a bit and couldn't find the iodine test described
in ANY of my cidermaking books.
Well, why not? The test seems so simple, and so easy to interpret, I
don't understand why it's not mentioned. It's nearly objective--once
you see how it looks on one ripe apple and one unripe apple, there's
little judgment required to interpret the test. A one-ounce bottle of
iodine, at the exorbitant price of several dollars from a drugstore,
will probably suffice for the rest of my life. There's no grinding
or pressing, and nothing to clean but a knife.
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Pop bottles vs glass
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 09:02:04 +0100
Derek wrote:
> I also have had the experience of comparing cider bottled with
> sugar addition in plastic two litre pop bottles with the same cider in
> glass . The pop bottles developed lots of CO2 pressure but there was a
> distinct loss of quality after several months. It had a staleness to it
> while the cider in glass still tasted fresh.
>
Yes I too have had a similar experience. It was so revelatory that I
even wrote it up on my website (see
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea/bottles.htm ).
The counterintuitive part is that, while the internal pressure of CO2
keeps the plastic bottles turgid, it does *not* prevent the diffusion of
oxygen inward, and this affects the cider quality adversely. I've had a
similar experience in bulk this year where perforce I've been compelled
into keeping the same finished cider split between stainless steel and
HDPE tanks while undergoing MLF. The steel is markedly superior.
Andrew Lea
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: CO2 blanketing
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 12:01:17 +0100
I recently received the following link from a Swiss fellow which sort of
bears tangentially on this discussion and is worth a look
http://www.hupi.org/HPeJ/0003/0003.htm
I'd still be a bit worried by the potential for exploding bottles (I've
seen it happen and it ain't pretty!) but the keg system using CO2 top
pressure is similar to the old 'Boehi' system which was popular in
Central Europe for conserving fresh juice until the 1960's. The idea of
high CO2 levels to put organisms into suspended animation is still
around though, being used for long-term storage of apples themselves and
also more recently for the pre-packed prepared salads and leaf
vegetables which are so common in supermarkets nowadays (see e.g.
http://postharvest.ucdavis.edu/Pubs/kader_ma_2000.pdf) .
Andrew Lea
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
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End of Cider Digest #1159
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