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Cider Digest #1141
Subject: Cider Digest #1141, 11 June 2004
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1141 11 June 2004
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Ester formation (Andrew Lea)
Wild yeasts (Andrew Lea)
Cider Day 2004, November 6-7 (Cider Digest)
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Subject: Ester formation
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 08:51:23 +0100
Stephen Schultz wrote:
>
> The total discussion of "Apple Flavour in Cider" has listed a number
> of plausible varibles influencing the outcome. Bob Kyme the former New
> York State Geneva Station fermented fruit juice expert felt that flavour
> esters were more readily maintained in solution with higher levels of
> alcohol.Through some small experiments that he did, he felt that a 9-10 %
> alcohol range was better than a 5-6 % alcohol range in retaining the flavor
> and preventing off-gasing of important esters .
I'm reluctant to take issue with the late and respected Bob Kime, but
although his observations were correct his explanation was wrong. The
esters do not come from the apple - they are synthesised from sugars by
the yeast and this happens more at high alcohol levels than than at low
alcohol levels. This is a well-known issue in fermentation
biochemistry. It is reportedly a significant problem in 'high gravity'
beer brewing where unwanted fruity flavours have now become a dominant
flavour note which they never were in traditional practice. Even after
dilution ('breaking back'),the imbalance of esters still remains.
And who wants a 'cider' at 10% alcohol? That's a fortified 'apple wine'
which is a different animal! (Though we have been here on Cider Digest
before, methinks!)
Andrew Lea
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
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Subject: Wild yeasts
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 08:52:00 +0100
Stuart Grant wrote:
> i) Wild "yeast" is usually a huge range of microflora that has reached
> some kind of equilibrium (as opposed to "happenstance") within the
> apple before it is utilised by cider-makers. As such, this balance can
> probably only be achieved once. That is, if you pitched a second batch
> of juice onto a yeast cake from another batch's secondary fermentation,
> you would not be likely to get the same results.
>
> ii) Secondly because you're dealing with a *range* of yeasts and other
> bugs, culturing as you described would be impossible. Agar techniques
> are for isolating single yeast cultures and this would defeat the purpose
> of your idea.
I'm afraid Stuart is absolutely right. A 'wild yeast' cider fermentation
is carried on by a succession of different organisms, so trying to
culture and to inoculate just one pure yeast does not give the same
results. The French cider industry has tried hard to crack this, but I
think has pretty much conceded that a wild 'mixed microflora'
fermentation works best for them and cannot (yet) be reproduced by
artificial inoculation.!
Andrew Lea
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Day 2004, November 6-7
From: ciderr@talisman.com (Cider Digest)
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 08:31:14 -0600 (MDT)
I'm forwarding the following from the Cider Day organizers. This has
become the major US gathering for cidermakers.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Save the dates of CiderDay 2004, November 6 & 7.
Our 10th year of celebrating the apple harvest and cider making!
A Celebration of Cider, Sweet and Hard
The 10th Annual CiderDay 2004 features tastings of cider and cheese; talks
and demonstrations about cider, apples, food and trees; orchard tours;
apple and cider cooking at nearby restaurants. There will be activities
for children at the New Salem and Deerfield Inn Apple Festivals.
Special 2004 guests include:
Alan Tringham, who will discuss and taste traditional British Ciders on
Saturday, November 6. Alan is presently consultant to Boston Beer Company,
and formerly Master Cidermaker at Bulmers for 45 years and the overseer
of the legendary (and traditional )#7 Cider.
Michael Phillips, organic orchardist, author of The Apple Grower, will
speak about growing apples organically on Saturday and will guide us in a
wassail in a local orchard on Sunday morning. To learn more about CiderDay
2004 and to view the complete schedule of events, photos from last year,
recipes and more, visit our web site, www.ciderday.org. We hope to see
you at CiderDay this year!
CiderDay is sponsored in part by West County Winery, the Franklin County
Chamber of Commerce, Community Involved in Sustaining Agricultureand Slow
Food USA.
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1141
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