Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Cider Digest #1132
Subject: Cider Digest #1132, 2 May 2004
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1132 2 May 2004
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Orchard grazing (John Ross)
RE: Orchard grazing ("Richard & Susan Anderson")
Orchard grazing (Andrew Lea)
Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com.
Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests.
When subscribing, please include your name and a good address in the
message body unless you're sure your mailer generates them.
Archives of the Digest are available at www.talisman.com/cider
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Orchard grazing
From: John Ross <johnross@halcyon.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:44:56 -0700
At 4/27/2004 10:16 AM, Chris Horn wrote:
>There is an old drawing of a the arrangement that the Normans put on there
>cows when they were in the orchard. It was a set up that kept the cows
>from raising thier
>heads more than about 18" from the ground. A line was atttached between the
>two from legs and from that line a chain ran forward to sort of open muzzle.
> Thus the cows couldn't graze the low hanging limbs or fruit.... This day
>in age, I bet that you neighbors might call the ASPCA if they saw all your
>live stock in those... But real world, the cows could graze and if they had
>a short water tub, they would be fine...
Seems like there are other problems with cows in an orchard. As I
understand it, fecal matter from cows grazing in an orchard was the source
of the e.coli contamination that created major problems for Snapple several
years ago.
Even if Bossy can't get to the apples on the trees, she can make the fruit
unfit for use. In theory, the contaminated apples were all groundfalls, but
that's not a risk I would want to run.
==================
John Ross
Seattle
johnross@halcyon.com
johnross@hard-cider.com
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Orchard grazing
From: "Richard & Susan Anderson" <baylonanderson@rockisland.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:14:55 -0700
Typically the orchards we visited in France and the UK had standard trees
and sheep. I visited an dwarfing Asian Pear orchard near here several years
ago and the owners had constructed a electrified wire system which keeps the
sheep from the eating the foliage, but allow them to graze below the
foliage. It seemed to work well.
On a second note, Dick Dunn and his team deserve a thank you from the cider
community for the excellent job on rewriting the BJCP Cider Guidelines. The
introduction is excellent and these guidelines should go a long way to
improve the understanding of cider characteristics, and defining styles of
cider.
------------------------------
Subject: Orchard grazing
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:24:17 +0100
Scott wrote
>
> . I
> know that some European (French?) orchards are grazed,
> anyone know with what type of animal? My trees are
> all semi-dwarfs, so I'm looking for something that
> will eat the grass, not eat the trees, and not rub on
> the trees vigorously enough to damage them. I've got
> goats, sheep, and cattle at my disposal. Do these
> grazed French orchards have full-size trees that are
> less likely to be damaged by grazers? My intent is to
> produce French style cider in the future, if possible.
>
Yes. Typically a French (or English) traditional orchard will have
widely spaced standard trees so that sheep or cattle grazing will not be
a problem and indeed that is all part of the original 'dual purpose'
management. With modern bush orchards this is much more difficult.
Until the trees are quite mature it's not easy to keep livestock with
them because of bark stripping, and in any cases such orchards are not
intended to be used this way. Here in the UK though it is not uncommon
to see a few sheep running in small private bush orchards (not the large
commercial ones) but the lower branches must be above browse height and
the bark is often protected eg, with plastic fertiliser sacks. Twenty
minutes attention by a determined animal with a taste for bark can spell
the end for a young tree! For that reason goats (being browsers not
grazers) are an absolute no-no. Have you thought of geese? They are
grazers too and also quite traditional in European orchards.
The benefit of grazing is that it keeps the grass down and the nitrogen
low - both helpful to slow-fermenting French style cider. The downside
is that some people nowadays are unhappy about mixing any animals with
fruit crops, for public health reasons.
Andrew Lea
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1132
*************************
