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Cider Digest #1150
Subject: Cider Digest #1150, 20 July 2004
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1150 20 July 2004
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Neem on aphids ("John A. Ray")
Neem Oil (Scott Conley)
Re: Neem oil? (Benjamin Watson)
Ciderfest 2004 in Woodinville, WA (Cider Digest)
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Subject: Re: Neem on aphids
From: "John A. Ray" <jar18@lamar.colostate.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 11:43:31 -0600
Chris,
Here's a good description of what's going on
http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/Entomology/courses/en570/papers_1994/sclar.html
Azadirachtin, the main ingredient works through an anti-feeding action
and an ecdysone inhibitor (an Insect Growth Regulator in broad terms).
Anyway, a couple of cautions;
This stuff is a VERY broad spectrum insecticide, just because it's
"organic" doesn't mean it's necessarily "soft" on beneficials. Maybe
some insecticidal soaps would work as well?
Second, DO NOT apply any sulfur within 2 weeks of a neem application.
This and warm temperatures will whack your canopy.
Third, It is an Oil so you should observe caution with repeat
applications and/or warm temps.
A related question - Are there any ants "farming" your aphids? I have
some second leaf trees this year that the aphids went nuts on. Took a
closer look and saw many ants working the aphids for honeydew. I spread
tanglefoot around the trunk just above the graft union and with a few
days, the ladybird beetles had made a strong comeback and within a week,
the aphids were nearly gone. Pretty cool!
Luck.
- --
John A. Ray
Colorado State University
Research Associate
W.D. Holley Floriculture Research Program
Department of Horticulture & Landscape Architecture
111 Shepardson Bldg
Fort Collins CO 80523-1173
970.491.4615 (Office)
970.491.7745 (FAX)
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Subject: Neem Oil
From: Scott Conley <sconley@rochester.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:44:49 -0400
>My question is two fold. I can't find any info on how the spray really
>kills the bugs. Is it absorbed in their skin or plant absorbs it and the
>bugs eat the plant? The other question is if anyone has used this on cider
>apples and if they have gotten any carry over of odd flavors or such in the
>cider. I plan to wash the apples but....
Neem Oil is also used for orchids and I just happened to read an
article about it in my latest Orchids magazine. One of the active
ingredients of Neem is azadirachtin. It is known to be an
antifeedant, most insects will not eat anything it is on. Due to the
smell, that will probably work for humans as well. Many oils will
smother insects, but only if they are applied to the insect. Neem
oil is supposed to have antifungal, and growth regulation properties
as well. I do not think that the plant absorbs any of the neem oil,
but then, I don't eat my orchids.
- --
Scott
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Neem oil?
From: Benjamin Watson <bwatson@worldpath.net>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 11:15:46 -0400
In response to a question last week about neem oil, I thought I would
ask one of my authors, Michael Phillips (who wrote The Apple Grower,
which deals with organic orcharding). Michael is completing a full
revision of the book as we speak, so I thought he'd be a good person to
ask. Here is his response.
Ben Watson
> Just a follow-up on the neem oil question, Ben.
>
> Pure (unadulterated) neem oil contains over 100 identified compounds. Chief
> amongst the active ingredients are: azadirachtin, salininin, nimbin,
> nimbidin, vepol and iso vepol. Most of neem's insect control properties are
> attributed to the action of azadirachtin, which is a tetranortriterpenoid.
> Azadirachtin exhibits antifeedant, insect repellent and insect sterilization
> properties. It prevents larvae and pupae from completing the molting process
> by interfering with ecdysone, the key insect molting hormone. Insects
> treated with Azadirachtin during the larval and pupal stages generally die
> within 3 - 14 days. Unlike chemical insecticides, it works on the insect's
> hormonal system, not on the digestive or nervous system, and does not lead
> to development of resistance in future generations. Sprays applied directly
> onto the insect - adults, larvae, eggs - work best, though residual effects
> last as long as 10 days, particularly on the underside of the leaves. I can
> see neem oil being systemic (taken up by the leaves) as it is a plant
> compound but I don't know that to be a fact.
>
> Commercial neem products are basically an alcohol extraction of the
> azadirachtins. Emulsifiers, adjuvants, activators, and stabilizers are used
> in these products to garner an easier to use spray. However, many of the
> oils in the pure neem are left behind in the extraction process. Neem seed
> oil is very bitter with a garlic/sulfur smell and contains vitamin E and
> other essential amino acids. These acids contribute considerably to overall
> plant health, which in turn makes the fruit tree that much more able to
> resist disease and insect infestation.
>
> I would think the carryover of off-flavors into the cider unlikely as I
> can't see why any grower needs to apply neem oil beyond the middle of
> August. This timing works well for most multi-generation lepidoptera (moths)
> and apple maggot fly infestation on mid and late season varieties.
>
> Michael Phillips
> Lost Nation Orchard
> Heartsong Farm Healing Herbs
> RFD 1 Box 275
> Groveton, NH 03582
> www.HerbsAndApples.com
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Subject: Ciderfest 2004 in Woodinville, WA
From: cider-request@talisman.com (Cider Digest)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 15:22:43 -0600 (MDT)
[Janitor's note: I'm forwarding the following as it may be of interest to
folks in the NW US...it's somewhat of a commercial announcement (a tidied-up
piece of a press release) but it does cover various cidermakers. --Dick]
WOODINVILLE, WA- Local and international cider makers will gather at Silver
Lake Winery's Woodinville facility for a public tasting event July 24 and
25, noon to five. Similar to a brewfest, the public is invited to taste a
wide range of ciders, talk to the cider makers and learn about traditional
European brands and Washington state ciders.
Drink tokens cost $6 for nine tokens or $.75 each at the winery on the
days of the event. Packaged products will also be sold and all proceeds
will benefit the Everett Firefighters Association.
Here's a rare chance to compare ciders side-by-side and be on the
forefront of a new drink trend born in the apple lands of the Pacific
Northwest. Featured ciders will be from:
Spire Mountain Draft Cider made in Bothell
Irvine's Vintage Cider and Vintage Blend made on Vashon Island
Westcott Bay Orchards Vintage Cider made on San Juan Island
Aspall Dry Cyder and Aspall Medium Cyder made in Suffolk, England
Manoir du Parc Apple and Manoir du Parc Pear Ciders made in Normandy, France
Baron Noir Dry and Baron Noir Sweet Apple Ciders made in Normandy, France
And for you aspiring cider makers, the Northwest Cider Society will share
information about the cider-making process and upcoming cider school
classes taught by Peter Mitchell.
Other non-profit organizations will be on hand to inform CiderFest visitors
about cider related topics.
During CiderFest, try another Northwest favorite to compliment the
ciders. Larry's Smokehouse will prepare smoked king salmon, Caesar salad
and hot French garlic bread for $7.50.
For more information about CiderFest 2004, call (425) 485-2437 x109 or
visit www.silverlakewinery.com.
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End of Cider Digest #1150
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