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Cider Digest #1144
Subject: Cider Digest #1144, 26 June 2004
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1144 26 June 2004
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: English cider visit (Dick Dunn)
RE: Cider Digest #1143, 21 June 2004 ("Murdo Laird")
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Subject: Re: English cider visit
From: rcd@talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 16:03:10 -0600 (MDT)
Andrew Lea wrote:
> The Cider Museum may be a bit of a disappointment. It's in the town
> centre in one of the old Bulmers buildings and there are no trees
> anywhere near. Just a few old bits of equipment and a static display
> and the obligatory shop to relieve you of your cash!. For an
> orchardist, Brogdale should be more of a draw.
Julian Temperley wrote:
> Brogdale would be a waste of time. The Hereford cider museum is
> interesting, however the real center of traditional orchards and cider is
> in Somerset...
I'll side with Andrew on Brogdale and with Julian on the Hereford museum.
If you're in cider country (southwest) you might as well spend a little
while to see the Cider Museum, just don't expect to spend a day there!
(more like an hour, perhaps) Interesting collection of relics.
Brogdale is out of the way, being over in Kent. The focus is on fruit,
not cider, and cider apples form a small part of the overall collection.
Nevertheless, I think there's a lot to be learned...as Andrew says, for
an orchardist, but even more I think for a non-orchardist who's wanting
or trying to grow trees! The sheer magnitude of the collection is over-
whelming. Do find out when you can get a tour, or there won't be much
to see. If you're staying in the southwest, is it worth the trip to Kent
- -just- for Brogdale? Probably not. It could be a couple hundred miles
each way. But there are many other things to see and do over there.
Derek mentioned he's going to be there in September. Folks on the ukcider
list were discussing Brogdale's cider festival coming up September 27th-28th
this year. That's a good chance to get the most out of a Brogdale visit.
Brogdale won't show you cidermaking. Also, since their focus is on
maintaining a collection, you don't really see "orchards" in the
functioning sense, and in particular you won't see any of the classic
orchards of standard-sized trees...which can be overwhelming in their
own way. You really need to get around in the West Country for that.
(FYA, I put a snapshot of 3 of us under an old standard tree, taken at
Burrow Hill a few years ago, at www.talisman.com/cider/oldstd.jpg
[I seem to remember that it was a Harry Master's Jersey??] Folks growing
semi-dwarf or dwarf trees should appreciate the contrast.)
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
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Subject: RE: Cider Digest #1143, 21 June 2004
From: "Murdo Laird" <murdo@murdos.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 13:11:59 -0700
I would like to respond to each of the articles in the last Digest.
Firstly, no one seriously interested in cider should turn down an
invitation to visit Julian Temperley's amazing orchards. I highly
recommend that Derek does so.
I'm a little concerned with the current chaptalization discussion since
the assumption seems to be being made (or the impression given) that all
"high alcohol ciders" got that way by the application of that process.
My own 2002 cider (made in the Napa Valley) weighs in at 9.5% and got
that way purely from fermentation of the fruit as picked when it matured
in August.
If I had chosen to delay the harvest I have no doubt that it could have
easily topped the 10% mark which triggered the current discussion. The
cider has plenty of body, no detectable residual sugar, and I have never
felt "compelled" to add any "sweetness" to it.
I share Richard & Susan's sadness regarding Charles McGonegal's posting
and I have to say that his experience regarding sweetness has been the
opposite of my own. Of course he has sold a lot more product than I
have, but my experience has been that people prefer dry cider. I have
often been asked when offering a taste to someone new "Is it sweet?".
This is usually accompanied by a grimace indicating a distaste for
sweetness.
This has happened in California, Oregon, at CiderDay in New England, and
last Saturday at a party in the Missouri Ozarks where I now live. (This
even though I have had to learn how to make our own bread since we moved
here because it is impossible to find any without sugar, or honey, in
it.)
Now it may be that because this cider has gone through a malolactic
fermentation, and therefore does not have the harsher malic acid taste
AND because the alcohol is so high and (as I remember my Peynaud)
alcohol is perceived as sweet by the taster, people react to it as if it
did have some residual sugar or other sweetner. I don't know, but I
think that may well be the case.
I believe there will be plenty of room for all styles of cider in the
market place, no one would compare a Riesling to a Cabernet and fault
either of them because they were not made the same way - would they?
Murdo Laird
Flat Creek Farm
Barry County, Missouri
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End of Cider Digest #1144
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