Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Cider Digest #1143
Subject: Cider Digest #1143, 21 June 2004
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1143 21 June 2004
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Chaptalization (Andrew Lea)
Derek's UK visit (Andrew Lea)
Apple Wine ("Richard & Susan Anderson")
Re: Cider Digest #1142, 16 June 2004 ("Julian Temperley")
Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com.
Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests.
When subscribing, please include your name and a good address in the
message body unless you're sure your mailer generates them.
Archives of the Digest are available at www.talisman.com/cider
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Chaptalization
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 20:10:24 +0100
Charles wrote:
>
> So let me switch tactics. I think that cider-makers and -enjoyers are
> uniquely positioned to appreciate chaptalized styles of apple wines.
>
Mmm... perhaps! My main (personal) problem with high alcohol ciders is
that the underlying flavour balance of cider simply never matches that
of grape wine. As the alcohol goes up by 'chaptalization' with
flavourless sugar, the rest of the cider does not match it in 'body'.
Hence the manufacturers are compelled to add extra sweetness to balance
this inherent defect, as Charles notes below.
> Most small wineries, at least in the American Midwest, try making apple
> wines. These wineries often make 'hard' ciders for local markets (under the
> radar of even this forum) - but they _promote_ (and sell in their tasting
> rooms) their wine-like efforts. In my
> Not-So-Humble-And-Extremely-Subjective-Opinion, way too many of these table
> wine offerings cater to the worst of consumers' expectations;
> self-reinforcing an image of sweet, overtly juice-like wines that rarely
> meet the quality of vinifera wines.
>
>
> And one small note, whilst I hop off my soap box. Can we please be careful
> with the term 'fortified'? Pommeau is fortified (with spirits). Table wine
> (by ATF/TTB definition) is 7-14% ABV, and in the case of apples, is merely
> chaptalized.
Yes, fair point - my terminology was inexact! (I was coming from a UK
perspective, where no apple wine above 8.5% alcohol can legally be
described as 'cider', and has to pay higher 'made wine' excise duty).
Technically 'fortification' is indeed the addition of alcohol after
fermentation, while 'chaptalization' is the addition of sugar beforehand
with the intention of allowing it to ferment to alcohol. In the UK the
situation is even more confused since many of our medium alcohol ciders
are heavily chaptalized as well (think about it!!).
Slightly off topic, I just bought a copy of the first translation into
English of Chaptal's original French manual in which he described the
technique which now bears his name. Published in Boston in 1835 as
'Chymistry applied to Agriculture'. But Chaptal only intended the
technique to be applied occasionally, to grapes which had ripened
insufficiently in a poor year. Little did he know what manipulations he
started!
Andrew Lea
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Derek's UK visit
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 20:42:19 +0100
Derek wrote:
>
> I have a few days for a visit to places of cider interest in Enland in mid
> September this year .My interest is in cider apple tree growing and cider
> with a high content of traditional cider apples How would Brogdale cider
> tree collection rate vs the Hereford cider museum as places of interest
> for example?
The Cider Museum may be a bit of a disappointment. It's in the town
centre in one of the old Bulmers buildings and there are no trees
anywhere near. Just a few old bits of equipment and a static display
and the obligatory shop to relieve you of your cash!. For an
orchardist, Brogdale should be more of a draw.
> Are there accessible orchards in Hereford and Somerset?
Usually only by prior negotiation with the owners.
> I have tried previously with little success to find quality (artisanal
> etc. ) cider in the West of England and I would like to have specific
> locations where cider is available .
There's lot of good stuff in the Three Counties (Hereford, Worcester,
Gloucestershire), with many new progressive makers. Some people to look
out for are Dunkertons, Olivers, Greggs Pitt, Henneys,
Minchews,Orchards, Knights etc (not meant to be an exhaustive list, and
they are not all available for visiting!). My impression is that there
are fewer good small manufacturers in Somerset and Devon these days (but
Julian Temperley the doyen of them all is down at Burrow Hill in
Somerset), and others will slam me for saying that!. Look at Paul
Gunningham's website for a comprehensive UK list
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/scrumpy/cider/makers.htm Also try to get
to Geoff Morris's shop in Leominster where many otherwise rare ciders
are available for purchase and Geoff is usually available for a chat
http://www.orchard-hive-and-vine.co.uk/
Unfortunately the CAMRA Good Cider Guide which would otherwise be
helpful is in between editions and not currently available except
perhaps secondhand.
Andrew Lea
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Apple Wine
From: "Richard & Susan Anderson" <baylonanderson@rockisland.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 22:03:45 -0700
Charles McGonegals posting on "fortified" cider makes me sad, not because he
makes a fortified cider but because he is trying to reach the market that
wants it. In doing so is his marketing plan in error? or as many will argue
"the customer is always right" ? So as a challenge to Digesters, what is the
solution?
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1142, 16 June 2004
From: "Julian Temperley" <somcb@globalnet.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 10:10:35 +0100
[Janitor's note: the following posting got somewhat scrambled in the mail;
I hope I've repaired it enough.]
> I have a few days for a visit to places of cider interest in Enland in mid
> September this year .My interest is in cider apple tree growing and cider
> with a high content of traditional cider apples How would Brogdale cider
> tree collection rate vs the Hereford cider museum as places of interest
> for example?Are there accessible orchards in Hereford and Somerset?
>
> I have tried previously with little success to find quality (artisanal
> etc. ) cider in the West of England and I would like to have specific
> locations where cider is available .
> Any advice would be appreciated .
Brogdale would be a waste of time. The Hereford cider museum is
interesting, however the real center of traditional orchards and cider is
in Somerset. If you find yourself there try Burrow Hill Cider
www.ciderbrandy.co.uk. There you will find everything you dreamed of. JT
Yes, we have 150 acres of them.
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1143
*************************
