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Cider Digest #1136
Subject: Cider Digest #1136, 22 May 2004
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1136 22 May 2004
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Traditional Cider w. Adjuncts ? (DirkBlaze@aol.com)
Re: a couple of queries (adam girard)
Re: Cider Digest #1134, 12 May 2004 (LoneRoc@aol.com)
Chiago (michael lewis)
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Subject: Traditional Cider w. Adjuncts ?
From: DirkBlaze@aol.com
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 10:38:12 EDT
I wonder if anyone reading is aware of a "traditional" hard cider made with
ingredients other than apple juice that are meant to contribute a distinct
flavor to the end product (so not white sugar or malic or tannic acid).
I call such ingredients "adjuncts" as they would be called by a beer brewer.
There are numerous examples in the world of beer brewing; in addition to
grains other than barley malt and herbaceous hops, there are examples of all
sorts of spices, fruits, herbs around the world. For example, in Belgium,
traditional "white" beers are made with the addition of orange peel and
coriander to the wurt. There are also many fascinating examples in winemaking.
I would consider oak aging an example of a traditional adjunct, used in both
England and France, although I'm not sure how traditional that is. I have had
hot mulled cider in England, fermented but low alcohol, mulled with spices
which was wonderful, but those spices were added after fermentation and aging
so they were not adjuncts.
Of course, there are many commercial varieties (especially in Canada)
flavored with everything from apricot to kiwi (literally). But I'm referring
to something that didn't get invented in the laboratory of a huge cider -
pop maker, or even the recent invention of a more "artesian" cider maker.
Regards,
Bruce Kahn
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Subject: Re: a couple of queries
From: adam girard <handmadecraft@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 15:44:50 -0700 (PDT)
I made a batch of cider with only fresh unpasturized
juice and I tastes much nicer when I pour it from high
hights. I believe I read about that being done in
Spain. Also, I have had rhubarb wine and lemon wine. I
liked them both. I have some made from Meyer(sp?)
lemons that I almost added rhubarb to.
Adam
Subject: a couple of queries
From: "Darlene Hanson / Darcy Wardrop"
<d_hanson@oberon.ark.com>
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 19:58:15 -0700
The other day I opened a bottle of cider , produced by the Ravens Ridge
cidery in kelowna BC. After having a glass of the still cider I put the rest
back in the fridge for later . The next day I had the rest. It was noticebly
smoother and you could taste the apple flavour much better. I have noticed
this same effect with other ciders and wines. I have heard of letting red
wine breath but is there any precedent for serving cider this way?
Today I ran two stalks of rhubarb through my juicer and combined it with
lemon juice, water, and sugar to make a rhubarb lemonade. It was
faboulous,with a full body and a fruity flavour. It set me to wondering if
anyone has tried adding rhubarb to apple juice to make a rhubarb cider?
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1134, 12 May 2004
From: LoneRoc@aol.com
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 06:32:31 -0400
Tim,
I planted a number of Bud 118/Bud 9 interstems I ordered from
Bear Creek the last year they offered that rootstock. (I think
it was 1998, but you'd have to check back catalogues if you
still have them.) The rootstocks themselves had been grafted
that same spring and had callused when I received them.
Two of the grafts didn't take, and I didn't get around to grafting
them the following spring. On one, the Bud 9 interstem continued
to grow. It is currently a twiggy 2 1/2 ' tree. On the other the
interstem died. I decided to let the Bud 118 grow and compare the
two.
In 1992, The Bud 9 (On the 118) flowered and fruited. I picked
the drops and tossed them. In 1993 both trees fruited quite
heavily. The Bud 118 was a willowy 9-10 footer. I'm sure I must
have made a pruning cut or two at some point since it was planted.
The 118 fruited so heavily that branches bent to the ground,
though they didn't break.
When fruit started to drop in mid August I tasted both. The
Bud 118 had a really nice tannic bite, yet the tannins were smooth,
not rough, if that makes sense. The 118 tasted quite sweet. The
Bud 9 had noticeably fewer tannins, though some, but was much less
sweet than the 118. The Bud 9's tannins had a roughness to them that
I might describe more as bitter than tannic. Neither had much acid
in them.
I did no measurements of these, but compared them (tastewise)to a
'Centennial' apple crab (slightly past its prime)that grows nearby.
The 118 and the 9 were much less acidic. It was hard to compare
the sugar levels of the 118 and 9 to the Centennial because of the
acid difference. It struck me that a low acid, high tannin apple
might be just the ticket for us northern cidermakers.
The Bud 118 appears to be quite a vigorous grower. putting on at least
2' of growth per year (quite a lot in this climate). Since it's
supposed to produce a 70-80% top I imagine it will be nearly full sized.
If size were a concern, I suppose that an interested grower could graft
a Bud 118 onto a Bud 9 root. Now there's a concept:-).
If any one else tries this get back to me in a few years. I'd be curious
of other's experiences. I won't be making any cider from my 118 this year.
I'm removing the crop this year to allow for the tree to shape up better
without having to carry a heavy fruit load It's a heavy bearer, apparently
with a slight tendency towards biennial, when not thinned. (Based on
fewer blooms this year than last.)
I have not yet ferment Bud 118 juice yet. I was too busy when 118 fruited
last summer to press the fruit. This note is just an observation that
might be of interest to folks who have trouble growing the tender British
or French cider apples because of winter low temps.
Steve Herje, Lone Rock, WI All time low temperature -53F (
5 years before I was born, thank God)
------------------------------
Subject: Chiago
From: michael lewis <orientmoron@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 18:16:13 -0700 (PDT)
Does anyone know of any outlets in Chicago where I can
get some decent hard cider?
Cheers
Mick Lewis
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End of Cider Digest #1136
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