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Cider Digest #1085
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Subject: Cider Digest #1085, 20 October 2003
Cider Digest #1085 20 October 2003
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Hardy cider apples (Claude Jolicoeur)
yeast & temp ("John Howard")
Faux Foxwhelp (Andrew Lea)
RE: Faux Foxwhelp & Hardy varities table ("James W Luedtke")
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Subject: Re: Hardy cider apples
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoli@gmc.ulaval.ca>
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:25:12 -0400
In Cider Digest #1084, Steve Dunlop wrote:
>Subject: Hardy cider apples
>From: "Dunlop, Steve" <dunlops@nextnetwireless.com>
>Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:15:05 -0500
>
>Jim Ludke was kind enough to send this list of hardy cider apples. I have
>Converted it to text format to post here, with his permission.
>Variety Type Ripening Time Hardy? Vintage Qualty?
>------------------ --------- ------------- ------------ ---------------
>Breakwell's Seedling B# Aug Y (Jolicoeur) -
>Browns # Mid-Late Y (Jolicoeur) Y
>...
It is always nice to see extracts from our old posts used by others - it
indicates others read and use them. So, reading this interesting data on
hardiness and other characteristics of cider apples, I thought it was a few
years since I had posted that information on hardiness and it could be
updated.
Last winter was very cold in Quebec - a test winter as we have once in 10
years. My orchard is located in colder part of Canadian zone 4, equivalent
to USDA zone 4. This is the traditional country of McIntosh, Duchesse,
Cortland, Lobo, Wealthy, etc... Temperature has reached lows of about -32
to -34 Celsius and the low temperatures lasted quite a long while in
January and February. More damaging was the fact that there was much less
snow cover than normal when these cold periods occured. We also had colder
than normal temperatures in end of November and beginning of December while
there was no snow at all on the ground.
Quite a few varieties suffered at different degrees. Only one tree died
almost completely: Egremont russet - it resprouted later in summer from 20
cm over ground.
My Bramley's Seedling also suffered: all flower buds froze, one main branch
was killed and a few smaller limbs also died, but it is recovering well.
The nice news, however, is that most of my cider apples only suffered the
loss of a fraction of their flower buds, and no damage to the wood.
Brown's apple: no damage, gave its best crop ever this fall.
Chisel Jersey: lost all flower buds - this variety does not perform well in
my orchard.
Yarlington Mill: lost some flower buds, gave a small crop, apples undersized.
Porter's perfection: lost some flower buds, nevertheless, gave its best
crop ever (I however suspect this variety requires a longer season than my
climate provides).
Bulmer's Norman: no damage, good crop.
Breakwell seedling: lost some flower buds, below avereage crop.
Muscadet de Dieppe: lost all flower buds.
Tremlett Bitter: lost some flower buds, small crop.
Coat Jersey: no damage, has not started production yet.
Reine des pommes: no damage, has not started production yet.
Medaille d'Or: has suffered - this variety is not hardy enough.
Stoke red: has suffered - this variety does not perform well in my orchard.
Other varieties that may be of interest for the readers of this digest are:
Ribston Pippin, King of Pippins and Belle de Boskoop, in particular, are
unexpected survivors - all do very well in my location.
Ashmead's Kernel seems to be doing well also, but I haven't had it long
enough to really be able to recommend it.
Calville blanc d'hiver, James Grieve and Roxbury Russet have not performed
well here.
Next report in a few years...
Claude Jolicoeur, Quebec.
------------------------------
Subject: yeast & temp
From: "John Howard" <jhoward@beckerfrondorf.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:32:49 -0400
Thank you Mr Higgins and Drew for sharing your yeast experiences. I'm
leaning toward trying the sweet mead yeast as well. As a newbie cidermaker
and compulsive researcher, I am perplexed by the near universal published
and anecdotal advice of cidermakers to ferment cider at low temperatures (45
to 55F) and the fact that yeast manufacturers recommend much higher
temperatures for most of their products. Only a few yeasts are advertised
for use in the 50s. I hear good things about cider yeasts' apple flavor
retention, but W****t suggests 60-75F for their cider yeast and W**** L**s
suggest 68-75F for theirs. I suppose I'll just ignore the manufacturers'
advice and keep a close eye out for a stopped fermentation.
John Howard
------------------------------
Subject: Faux Foxwhelp
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 17:58:31 +0100
In case it helps, I'm putting some pictures of my cider fruit as
harvested on my website. Go to 'Cider Apple Pictures'. The first two
are there now and one of them is Foxwhelp. It is Broxwood Foxwhelp which
is I think a Bulmer clone but it has all the characteristics of fruity
flavour and high acidity, and it's a dead ringer for the picture in
'Hogg and Bull'. I got it direct from Ray Williams at Long Ashton just
after it had been virus-cleaned.
Andrew Lea, nr Oxford, UK
- -------------
http:\\www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Faux Foxwhelp & Hardy varities table
From: "James W Luedtke" <james.luedtke@cgi.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:20:22 -0500
I got a Foxwhelp scion from Nick Botner 3 years ago. This is also pale
green, with just the barest hint of blush - certainly not the bright red
I'd expected. Perhaps this also is from the WSU collection Drew
Zimmerman wrote about. It does have a nice snappy flavor.
Regarding the hardy variety table Steve Dunlop sent in.
As you can probably tell from the context, B# type is Bittersharp, the
rest of the name must have been truncated. The ripening times listed are
not all accurate for the US. I entered them per whatever source I had -
mostly Baylon Andersons database. As my trees fruit, I update the times.
So, for example, Chisel Jersey is listed as a November ripener, but I
believe that's a UK timeframe. None of mine have fruited yet, I expect
they'll ripen in October.
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1085
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