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Cider Digest #1111
Subject: Cider Digest #1111, 1 February 2004
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1111 1 February 2004
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Help keep the digest alive (Cider Digest)
Apple Tree Pollination ("Schuler, Joseph (EAS)")
Cider Apples with High Specific Gravity ("McGonegal, Charles")
ML Off-flavours (Andrew Lea)
cidre seminar in north carolina (Thomas Beckett)
High sugar apples (Jack O Feil)
Aftertastes, and the Harrison apple (Jen)
Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com.
Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests.
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Archives of the Digest are available at www.talisman.com/cider
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Help keep the digest alive
From: cider-request@talisman.com (Cider Digest)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 00:02:34 -0700 (MST)
You'll see this twice if you get both mead and cider digests. But please
skim through it once. There are a few important bits for everyone. I'm
sorry to take up digest space with material that doesn't relate to our
favorite fermented beverage, but it's important to keep the digest running.
Digests have been delayed due to the current virus problems. They haven't
affected us directly here at Talisman Farm, but I've had to wade through a
bunch of virus-related noise, and perhaps many of you have had to do so
as well. So I delayed digests to let the noise level drop for all of us.
Apropos that, if you happen to get virus mail that appears to be from the
digest, rest assured that it is a forgery. All the recent email viruses
forge their headers, so that they appear to come from some place other than
the real sender. We don't use any "active email" software here, and we
don't run the popular virus-enabled operating system, so it's almost
impossible for us to forward a virus.
If you're submitting material to the digest, or trying to reach me for some
administrative matter, the most important thing you can do is to use an
appropriate subject line in your mail. Subjects like "Hi" or "Hello" or
"test" will cause me to toss your mail straight away. Also take care to
use the right address! Articles go to the main address; administrivia
goes to the -request address. This info is at the top of every digest.
PLEASE when you submit an article to the digest DO NOT include a copy of
the digest to which you are replying. If you want to include lines from
an article to which you're replying, that's great! But trim it down. If
you include a whole digest, I have to clean it up or return your article to
you for editing.
(tune out now if you don't know much about email problems)
Other than that, if you are running virus-scanning software, or if you have
some admin responsibility for such software, one of the best things you can
do is to check that it's up-to-date and that it *DOES*NOT* try to bounce
virus mail. One of the stupidest things a virus-scanner can do is to try
to complain to the "sender" of a virus when it doesn't really know who sent
it. Viruses forge their senders! In the past few days I've gotten scores
of complaints from virus-scanners that have concluded viruses are being
sent out from talisman.com. They're ALL wrong (and too many of them are
smug and condescending). Don't buy such software! If your virus scanner
is bouncing mail that appears to contain a virus, it is actually making the
problem worse for everyone, since it bounces the mail to someone who wasn't
the real sender. Keep your MTAs trimmed and burning.
thanks, folks
Cider Digest cider-request@talisman.com
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor Boulder County, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Apple Tree Pollination
From: "Schuler, Joseph (EAS)" <joseph_schuler@ml.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:29:11 -0500
Hello,
I intend to plant 1 or 2 Kingston Black trees this spring, and I am
wondering if I can get away with just planting one. Rather, my question
is: Do specific types of apple trees need another tree of the same kind
to pollinate them? I will also be planting some Stayman Winesap trees
for eating and cooking and need to know if these trees will cross-pollinate.
Thanks for your help folks,
Joseph Schuler
You be the peace on earth that you would like to experience. - Ghandi
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Apples with High Specific Gravity
From: "McGonegal, Charles" <Charles.McGonegal@uop.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 11:06:49 -0600
Along with the cultivars listed by John, the high Brix apples at our site
are:
Ones like English Golden Russet - 15-16 Brix: Margil, Golden Nugget
Ones like Wickson - 16-18 Brix: Chestnut Crab, Americus Crab, Dolgo Crab
Our highest SG apple is Hopi Crab, which is pink fleshed and comes in at
19-21 Brix
Charles
AEppelTreow Winery
------------------------------
Subject: ML Off-flavours
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 17:42:14 +0000
Tim Bray wrote:
> But
> see Andrew Lea's comments on the potential for off-flavors added by the ML
> culture.
Yes it is true that I have written in various places about the potential
of off-flavours from ML cultures. This was based on the literature I'd
read, not on my own experience.
However, since I used a culture for the first time for myself a couple
of years back, I've become a cautious convert to the cause! It did a
fantastic job of dropping the acidity (which is what I wanted it for)
and with no off-flavours. I can't say it contributed any noteworthy
flavours of its own, but that cider was pasteurised when I got to the
right acid level so I don't know what its long term flavour impact would
have been. (Some wild ML I've had in my naturally-conditioned bottled
ciders can eventually become rather too pharmaceutical in character for
my liking in their second or third years - or perhaps that's a secret
Brett infection, not ML at all?). The culture I used was Biostart Oenos
from Lallemand France via Erbsloh Germany via Vigo (the UK suppliers).
My understanding is that the quality and reliability of these cultures
has improved hugely over the last decade. Of course, we have the wine
industry to thank for that, but let's profit by it nonetheless!
BTW somebody gave me an interesting Herefordshire farm cider the other
night, made from bittersweet fruit (much of it Chisel Jersey) in the
autumn and matured in barrel till August of the next year. Then it was
pasteurised, carbonated and bottled. The flavour was distinctively
clove-like, but not unpleasant.. The maker said he'd not noticed it
until after bottling. That's probably a natural ML effect, perhaps
enhanced by the heat treatment.
Andrew Lea
- --------
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: cidre seminar in north carolina
From: Thomas Beckett <thomas@tbeckett.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 23:35:02 -0500
Cider enthusiasts in North Carolina may be interested to know that
Philippe Huet, maker of cidre and Calvados in Normandy, will be in North
Carolina giving a few presentations on cider-making to apple growers the
second week of February. He will be here as part of a rural development
grant. The main event will be the "Apple School" in Hendersonville on
February 11.
http://www.calvados-huet.com/
I am trying to arrange an additional session for the afternoon of
Friday, Feb. 13 at a location near Winston-Salem. This might be at the
Horne Creek Living Historical Farm in Pinnacle.
http://www.ah.dcr.state.nc.us/sections/hs/horne/horne.htm
Anyone interested in attending this Friday session should email me
off-list ASAP and I will let you know if I confirm the event.
Thomas Beckett
Durham, North Carolina
------------------------------
Subject: High sugar apples
From: Jack O Feil <feilorchards@juno.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 23:58:07 -0800
John Gasbarre would like to know of other varieties with whose
juice has a high specific gravity, which means a high sugar content. Some
common varieties we grow here in North Central Washington, when left to
ripen as long as possible without getting to soft to press are Golden
Delicious,Orin,Westfield SNF,Fuji and Smokehouse. I routinely test my
apples for maturity using the Brix scale read with a refractometer among
other indicators such as starch, pressure and ground color. These are not
quite as sweet as the ones John mentioned but another way to get a high
specific gravity is to sweat the apples for three weeks or even longer. I
got a SG reading of 1.067 from a batch of sweated mature Jonathans that
fermented to dryness with 8% alcohol. The fresh juice was heavy bodied
with excellent taste and mouth feel and it made a decent hard cider when
left to stand for five months or so.
Also, as a point of information, I have an apple crab(root
sucker) with a Brix of 21 and a russetted limb mutation of Golden
Delicious at 20.5 Brix. This may be a reversion to one of the Goldens
presumed parents, the Golden Russet.
Jack Feil
------------------------------
Subject: Aftertastes, and the Harrison apple
From: Jen <jclaster@localnet.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 07:58:42 -0500
I have two separate questions to pose to the list today. Firstly,
several of our cider batches this year have a distinctive aftertaste
which I can only describe as being very similar to the aftertaste of
cheap beer- a sort of hollow, malty taste. These batches have nothing
in common other than this taste- different apples, different strains of
yeast pitched. All three were racked off their lees in a timely manner
after fermenting to dryness. Has anyone else encountered this taste
and know why?
Second question- Has anyone on the list grown, fruited, and fermented
the recently rediscovered Harrison apple? If so, what type of climate
do you live in? How was the cider?
Happy Cidering all!
Jason MacArthur
Marlboro, Vt. USA
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End of Cider Digest #1111
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