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Cider Digest #1101
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Subject: Cider Digest #1101, 26 December 2003
Cider Digest #1101 26 December 2003
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
re: removing labels ("Skot Allan-Colacicco")
removing wine labels (Benjamin Watson)
label removal (Grant Mullins)
Re: Cider Digest #1100, 22 December 2003 ("Gary Awdey")
bottle cleaning ("Drew Zimmerman")
Malo inoc ("John Howard")
NYTimes article (Peter G)
Re: removing labels (Dick Dunn)
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Subject: re: removing labels
From: "Skot Allan-Colacicco" <sjg81@netzero.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:14:14 -0800
The best way that I have found to remove labels from wine bottles is to
soak them in a large bucket of water with 2 tbl of "Straight A" cleaner
per gallon. Leave it in for 24 hours (more is fine if you dont have the
time to clean bottles immediatly) and many of the labels will simple
lift off.
For some of the more stubborn types of glue (European glues seem to be
less likely to come off) I have a flat razor blade to glide under the
labels. It is pretty effective if only a bit on the time consuming side.
It certainly isnt withiout mess either, being that the water is going to
splash all over as you drain the bottles and get off the remaining bits.
Good luck
Skot
------------------------------
Subject: removing wine labels
From: Benjamin Watson <bwatson@monad.net>
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 09:27:31 -0500
Sorry I didn't weigh in on this immediately, but having read everyone
else's responses, I have a couple of thoughts on this unpleasant task.
You're talking about wine bottles, but I also have a nearby bar save me
a case or so of 550 ml Newcastle bottles. The labels come off like a
dream after a soak in hot water and dish soap. They take crown caps,
and the volume is just about what I like to drink in one night with
dinner.
For tougher adhesives, I find that using CitraSolv or other natural
citrus solvent/cleaner works pretty well if used full-strength on a
dish scrubbing pad. But sometimes even this is unsatisfactory. You have
to wonder . . . what do these winemakers think they're protecting
their labels against?
Happy New Year, y'all --
Ben Watson
> In CD # 1099, Jason MacArthur <rotread@localnet.com asked:
>
>> Aaahh, December: the cider is in the carboys, safe and sound, the
>> press
>> is cleaned and put away, what more does a cider maker have to do?
>> Well, remove the labels off of 300 wine bottles, for one thing. Is
>> there a trick to doing this neatly and /or quickly? Any suggestions
>> welcomed!
------------------------------
Subject: label removal
From: Grant Mullins <gmullins@masonbruce.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 08:14:12 -0800
I have had a lot of luck using vegetable oil to remove the adhesive left
behind after the label comes off.
merry christmas,
Grant Mullins
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1100, 22 December 2003
From: "Gary Awdey" <gawdey@att.net>
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 13:31:50 -0500
Al Boyce wrote:
>We are preparing for our 2004 BJCP class, and I would like to present some
>excellent examples of Ciders for evaluation practice. What commercially
>available examples would you recommend for A) Standard Cider, B) Standard
>Perry, C) New England-Style Cider, D) Specialty Cider (other fruits or
>adjuncts) and E) Specialty Perry? Please provide websites and/or phone
>numbers of the cider makers if you have them.
>
Thanks to Al for possibly setting off a new thread of discussion. For those
who do not already know, BJCP stands for Beer Judge Certification Program.
According to BJCP style guidelines, there are 26 styles of beer. The first
24 consist of an assortment that includes various categories of lager, ale,
stout, porter, fruit/wheat/spice/herb and vegetable beer. The 25th style of
beer is mead. The 26th style of beer is cider. (I'm not making this up; See
http://www.mv.com/ipusers/slack/bjcp/style-index.html). Presumably the
yet-to-be-added 27th style of beer is wine and the 49th will be tequila.
I didn't mean to be snippy, but do want to point out the absurdity of
classifying cider as a type of beer. Sure, in places like Ireland cider is
a popular alternative to beer. However, it's NOT the same. It's not wine
either (except in a very generic or sometimes a legal sense) though it's a
lot closer to being a wine than a beer. It's closer in method of
preparation. It's closer in bouquet, mouthfeel, and aftertaste, yet even so
it's clearly something different from wine.
In my opinion there are some good things about the BJCP: It promotes a
standard format for judging based on sound principles. It promotes tasting
events like the one Al mentions. It even has a reasonable cider score sheet
(http://www.mv.com/ipusers/slack/bjcp/ciderscore.pdf) that is distinct from
it's beer or mead score sheets. The cider score sheet belies the BJCP's
beer style committee's questionable classification of three styles
(http://www.mv.com/ipusers/slack/bjcp/styleguide26.html) all three of which
are described as clear and brilliant (so Eric Bordelet's hazy Sydre Doux
would fail miserably at achieving this standard even though IMO it is an
excellent cider of a particular style).
I confess to having ambivalent feelings about cider judging as a part of
BJCP unless the judging is meant to be personal and outside of what most
people would consider to be competition. It's great that cider tasting
events are being promoted. It just bothers me that this is being done under
the name "beer" and it bothers me that this is being done to a
"certification" (implying that a high level of competence has been achieved)
rather than as a process of gradual, enjoyable and ongoing personal
enlightenment (Or am I alone in thinking this?). I've tasted every cider
I could get my hands on for the past couple of years (making a serious
effort to seek out a good variety from North America and Europe) and still
feel my experience falls well short of what I think a qualified competition
judge's should be. We should all be able to form our own opinions but the
idea that anyone can try eight or ten ciders and become a qualified judge of
the beverage strikes me as a little presumptuous. Call it an educational
tasting event to develop a deeper appreciation of cider (rather than a
certification prep)and I'd feel a lot more comfortable with the concept.
The other thing that bothers me about this is the risk that a relatively
active beer group will fill a niche and slow the development of an
independent organization for promotion of cider. In the UK CAMRA (the
Campaign for Real Ale) has a cider adjunct (APPLE) that organizes tasting
events. Worthy as these events are, CAMRA carries some baggage such as
unreasoning insistence that only ciders containing live yeast are "real."
Many members of CAMRA are reasonable and pragmatic, willing to concede that
ingredients going into the cider are probably more significant.
Nevertheless a very vocal minority tout the live yeast dogma. Many cider
folks get frustrated with this but there is not quite enough momentum to
start a new organization to serve the same purpose of promoting cider.
There is a risk that comes with passively waiting for someone else to take
an interest in promoting cider.
I'd be interested to see what others have to say on this.
Gary
------------------------------
Subject: bottle cleaning
From: "Drew Zimmerman" <drewzimmer@comcast.net>
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 11:19:25 -0800
I use an alkaline cleaning product sold at brewing supply stores for
cleaning lines and equipment. There are a couple of products that work
equally well. I keep a Rubbermaid bin full of the solution (a 30 gal
plastic garbage can would also work) outside the garage door and sink
any used bottles I get in the container, with or without labels. The
solution dissolves proteins and other gunk that may be left in the
bottle and removes most labels as well. When it's time to bottle, I
just fish out as many bottles as I need (the stuff isn't terrible on
your hands, but gloves are a good idea), rinse them, sanitize and
bottle. The solution lasts a long time, I change it maybe once or twice
a year, and fish out the labels occasionally. I never have to scrape.
Any bottles with labels that don't come off, I just throw away, there
aren't many. The only down side is the solution gets pretty cold in the
winter. I wouldn't, however, recommend keeping it inside as it can
develop an odor, especially if it is kept at room temp. If the solution
is fresh, labels come off in a day or two, later it may take a week.
The idea is to put the bottles in when you get them and just forget
about them. If the bin gets too full, it's time to rinse and box them
up, marking the box of course. If you want some product names, contact
me off digest.
Drew Zimmernan
------------------------------
Subject: Malo inoc
From: "John Howard" <jhoward@beckerfrondorf.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 15:33:19 -0500
I'd like to make a lightly sparkling semi-dry cider. Assuming for a moment
that I will be successful in killing off yeasts through cold racking and
sulfiting at about 1.015sg, would inoculating with a malolactic culture at
bottling time generate some fizz in the matured cider? The juice has a high
natural acidity. Any advice on if and how this might work would be
appreciated. Obviously I'm willing to brave burst bottles. ;-)
John (not the PM) Howard
Philadelphia PA USA
------------------------------
Subject: NYTimes article
From: Peter G <peter.g@telus.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 09:34:55 -0800
there's an article in today's NYTimes online edition ...
A Is for Apple Cider, Sparkling and Intense
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/24/dining/24WINE.html?8hpib
one may be req'd to register, but that's painless & free
Holiday Greetings to All !!
peter g
------------------------------
Subject: Re: removing labels
From: rcd@talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 23:20:05 -0700 (MST)
Among all the other nostrums and potions, a soak in hot water with household
ammonia added often dissolves the glues. Avoid "sudsy" and scented ammonia;
you want the cheapest generic stuff.
Dick
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End of Cider Digest #1101
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