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Cider Digest #1112
Subject: Cider Digest #1112, 8 February 2004
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1112 8 February 2004
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: sweet sparkling cider ("John Howard")
apple pollination (Jack O Feil)
Golden Del. Bud mutations and ML fermentation. ("McGonegal, Charles")
Cider Digest ("Schuler, Joseph (EAS)")
Re: sweet sparkling cider ("John Howard")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: sweet sparkling cider
From: "John Howard" <jhoward@beckerfrondorf.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 18:31:08 -0500
Tim suggests moving to Normandy to make sweet sparkling cider. I wish...
hope to be doing the next best thing this spring, visiting! Last night I
stumbled across a bottle of Dupont cidre in a pub that specializes in
imported brews. It was very tasty and less sweet than other Normandy ciders
ive tried. Wonderful earthy flavors!
I have successfully stopped a carboy of juice at 15sg through repeated (5)
cold rackings at 34F. It has been quiet now for three weeks at a constant
temp of 40F. Soon I will bottle it and inoculate half the bottles for a MLF.
Will use the un-inoculated bottles as a control group. To get the MLF going
the lab suggests 60F or higher. This means bringing the bottles into the
house and of course my worry is that the yeasts will reactivate and I will
end up with bursting bottles. The upshot is I'll have to open and drink a
bottle every week or two to see how things are coming along :-) If things
start to get out of hand, will try in-bottle pasteurization as Andrew
suggests.
At the same time I will bottle a dry batch sweetened to the same sg with
sucrose syrup and observe if the yeast reactivates just as fast as the cold
racked batch and if there is any perceptible taste difference.
Cheers, John Howard, Philadelphia
------------------------------
Subject: apple pollination
From: Jack O Feil <feilorchards@juno.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 00:04:44 -0800
Joseph Schuler ask about pollinizers, I'm a long time commercial
grower here in the North Central Washington apple growing area and would
like to pass on a few ideas about pollination that may be helpful to
those who are not familiar with the subject. Whatever variety you want to
pollinate, try to plant a pollinator that blooms at the same time as the
target variety. Also make sure the one you choose for pollination has
viable pollen, a number of varieties are triploids and are not
pollinizers, Gravenstein is a prime example of a triploid and does not
produce viable pollen.
Joseph ask specifically about Stayman. Since it sprouted from an
open pollinated Winesap seed and Winesap is a poor pollinator at
best,Stayman may not be acceptable. In our area it is a late bloomer as
well.
Another issue,will the tree you plant for pollination bloom every
year? Obviously you would not want to plant an alternate bearing variety
as a pollen source. One of the best varieties to plant as a pollinizer is
the Winter Banana, a strong return bloomer with snowball blooms that
generate good viable pollen, and it's one of the best
all purpose apples around. The new commercial plantings in our area,
where the variety to be planted is self unfruitful, Delicious for
example,are interplanted with special crabs such as Snowdrift or
Manchurian and they bloom over an extended period of time, If any one is
interested, they are available at most any commercial nursery.
A technique that I use,is to graft or bud the pollinator variety
on to a limb or water sprout of the target variety. That way the pollen
source is in the same tree and you can keep the pollinizer limb small so
as not to take up a lot of valuable space. Don't forget the bees, all
that I've mentioned will do no good without bees or other pollinating
insects.
Jack
------------------------------
Subject: Golden Del. Bud mutations and ML fermentation.
From: "McGonegal, Charles" <Charles.McGonegal@uop.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 07:52:03 -0600
Jack Feil mentions a bud sport of Golden Del as one of his high brix apples.
Bud mutations of Golden Del seem to be pretty common. I wouldn't call it a
'reversion' - the resulting apples are nice - but not like Godlen Russet in
character - at least the ones I've had. Hooples Antique Gold is one such.
Absolutely beautiful cinnamon colored, fine-pointed and webbed russet over
the whole apple. The taste isn't noteworthy, IMHO. The owner of the
orchard our cidery is partnered with named a similar sport 'Bronze
Delicious' before finding out that it's just something that Golden Del does.
The bud sports aren't all the same, though - so there must be multiple genes
involved that have this easy 'bit-flip' kind of mutation. So it leaves open
the possibility of finding a really excellent one.
The other thing is that grafted trees of the bud mutation will occassionally
have bud mutations back to Golden Del.
On the other topic, I tried an innoculated ML cider this year - an early
season Gravenstein/Jerseymac blend. I was preety scared by the ML at first
- - I didn't like the sour milk smell given off when the bacteria was really
active (I don't recall which one I used). But now it's settled out and has
a very intersting character. A bit thin, being made up of August apples
(early for us) - but really buttery and nutty.
Charles
AEppelTreow Winery
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Digest
From: "Schuler, Joseph (EAS)" <joseph_schuler@ml.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 11:51:52 -0500
Hello,
I will be placing an order for cider apple trees through Cummins
nursery http://www.dabney.com/cumminsnursery/catalog2004.htm
<http://www.dabney.com/cumminsnursery/catalog2004.htm> next week, and
only have room to purchase/plant 6 trees. At that quantity, I will be
paying $19 per tree. Is there someone else that lives in the Central NJ,
central-eastern PA region that would like to add 5 or more trees to my
order so we can get the bulk discount and get them for $11 each?
Joseph Schuler, Princeton, NJ
------------------------------
Subject: Re: sweet sparkling cider
From: "John Howard" <jhoward@beckerfrondorf.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 18:31:08 -0500
Tim suggests moving to Normandy to make sweet sparkling cider. I wish...
hope to be doing the next best thing this spring, visiting! Last night I
stumbled across a bottle of Dupont cidre in a pub that specializes in
imported brews. It was very tasty and less sweet than other Normandy ciders
ive tried. Wonderful earthy flavors!
I have successfully stopped a carboy of juice at 15sg through repeated (5)
cold rackings at 34F. It has been quiet now for three weeks at a constant
temp of 40F. Soon I will bottle it and inoculate half the bottles for a MLF.
Will use the un-inoculated bottles as a control group. To get the MLF going
the lab suggests 60F or higher. This means bringing the bottles into the
house and of course my worry is that the yeasts will reactivate and I will
end up with bursting bottles. The upshot is I'll have to open and drink a
bottle every week or two to see how things are coming along :-) If things
start to get out of hand, will try in-bottle pasteurization as Andrew
suggests.
At the same time I will bottle a dry batch sweetened to the same sg with
sucrose syrup and observe if the yeast reactivates just as fast as the cold
racked batch and if there is any perceptible taste difference.
Cheers, John Howard, Philadelphia
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1112
*************************
