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Cider Digest #1116
Subject: Cider Digest #1116, 25 February 2004
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1116 25 February 2004
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Scion Wood (Mike Camp)
Commercial Ciders (Robert Sandefer)
basket-press and releasing juice (Dick Dunn)
Cell rupture during bottle pastuerization ("McGonegal, Charles")
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Subject: Scion Wood
From: Mike Camp <graciespop@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:54:28 -0800 (PST)
Mr. Dunn,
Before I post a message regarding this I wanted to
know if sharing scion wood using the Digest is an
appropriate use of this forum.
Thanks,
Mike Camp
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Subject: Commercial Ciders
From: Robert Sandefer <melamor@vzavenue.net>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 08:37:25 -0500
I'd like the collective's opinions on the following commercial ciders:
Bellot
Etienne Dupont 2002 (Cidre Bouche Brut de Normandie)
Blackthorn
A local store is selling these three and I have had the first two. Are
these considered good, average, or horrible ciders? Are they regarded as
decent French ciders?
I've also come across a few sites claiming that Blackthorn is a British
alcopop. Can anyone confirm this?
Looking forward to your responses,
Robert Sandefer
Arlington, VA
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Subject: basket-press and releasing juice
From: rcd@talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:35:37 -0700 (MST)
"Reynold Tomes" <rtomes@burnsmcd.com> wrote:
> In Cider Digest #1114, Dick Dunn wrote... " The efficiency of a press
> like the HVR is severely limited. There are two limit points: the
> quality of the grinding and the pressing in the basket. On the latter:
> the problem is that the mass of pulp binds up; once you get that 12"
> high 12" cylinder bound up, you can put extraordinary amounts of
> pressure on it and nothing will happen. The problem is that the juice
> just can't get out, and the harder you push the more the juice is
> trapped. This is why a rack/cloth press works so much better: there
> are channels for the juice every couple inches."
>
> I might be flaunting my ignorance since I don't actually press my own
> apples but an idea just came to mind regarding the pulp binding issue
> you mentioned. I assume that the HPV press uses a filter bag inside of
> the press basket similar to the Correll cider press...
Yes. They're essentially the same design.
(HVR, not HPV)
>...Why not obtain
> some suitable fabric and improvise a cheese inside of the filter bag? I
> envision the cheese fabric would be about as wide as the diameter of the
> press basket and approx. 10 feet long. To start, one end of the cheese
> fabric would be draped across the floor of the filter bag. A 2-inch
> layer of apple pomace would then be placed upon it. Next, the cheese
> fabric would be folded back across the pomace layer and another 2-inch
> layer of pomace would be placed on top of it. The process of placing
> 2-inch pomace layers separated by cheese fabric folded accordian-style
> would be repeated until you reach the top of the press basket. The
> cheese fabric layers would allow the extracted juice to drain outward
> more efficiently from the pomace into the filter bag and subsequently
> increase your juice recovery...
I considered something like this but rejected it.
The problem I see is that this only gives you half of the "rack-and-cloth"
design--no racks. I think you might get some improvement if you could find
the heavy press cloth material, but I think it would be slight. Granted,
I haven't tried it and I should; it would be an easy enough experiment (six
or seven months from now). But from observation, the cloths and racks work
together: the cloths hold the mass of fruit so that it doesn't squish down
into the racks, which provide the channels for the juice to escape.
Without the racks, you're hoping that a thin layer of cloth will remain
porous enough to let juice through.
Oh, yeah, I also thought about trying to make round press racks to fit in
the basket, which would also require a set of cloths, and I finally decided
(with some gentle mocking from friends to help me along) that I was getting
carried away trying to salvage the basket-press approach. IOW, instead of
trying to turn a basket press into a poor imitation of a rack-and-cloth
press through a long series of half-@$$ed steps, why not just build a
rack-and-cloth press?!?
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Cell rupture during bottle pastuerization
From: "McGonegal, Charles" <Charles.McGonegal@uop.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 07:52:38 -0600
I've been pondering the bottle pastuerization technique again recently, with
all the recent discussion going on.
I seem to recall a note during the last cycle on this topic from a
Digestarian that their attempt had gone horribly wrong. It sounded like the
yeast cells lysed (popped) during the process and rendered his cider a
cloudy muck.
I can see how it would be possible. Back in my bright college days (oh,
carefree days that fly...) I remember during genetics lab that we burst cell
cultures on purpose as one technique to get at the DNA. A small amount of
cell sludge yields an amazing amount of crud the consistency on snot.
So my question is: How frequently has this happened to folks trying to
bottle pastuerize cider with lees in the bottom. I've had Bill Rhyne's
cider - the lees in his cider aren't especially firm - but they are still
obvious yeast lees that settle out in a pretty short time. (Not cell debris)
So does it happen to an occasional bottle? Depend on temp and conditions?
Depend on yeast strain? Or is it vey rare that you end up with yeast or
bacteria with weakened cell walls in your cider?
Charles McGonegal
AEppelTreow Winery
One year closer to making a Mid-Atlantic Cider!
Harrison/Graniwinkle/Campfield/Hewes/faux-Taliaferro
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End of Cider Digest #1116
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