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Cider Digest #1115
Subject: Cider Digest #1115, 20 February 2004
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1115 20 February 2004
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: "quality presses" ("John C. Campbell III")
Re: Harrison apple (Benjamin Watson)
MLF (Andrew Lea)
Re: Cider Digest #1114, 16 February 2004 ("Reynold Tomes")
Re: Sweet sparkling cider--John Howard (Warren Place)
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Subject: Re: "quality presses"
From: "John C. Campbell III" <jccampb@tseassoc.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:45:08 -0500
I (like Dick Dunn) have to get "serious" about my press this year as my
orchard is close to production levels. Sixty gallons "the hard way" this year
was a painful experience. I agree with "squeeze" regarding the Canadian
brochure design of the "Cheese press". and Andrew Lea weighed in on this
issue for me off line from the UK cider board and raised the comparative
analysis of the sheer volume of juice produced by a "cheese type press" as
opposed to presses like the "Happy Valley" press which is a duplicate of the
Hocking Valley Press made in and around the turn of the 1800's to 1900's.
I'm building a variation on the Canadian design and stirring in some of
the concepts in the rather massive (and expensive) Oesco production press,
and will report on my progress and outcome but the issue of the grinder is
a weighty one to say the least. As I raised the issue before (apologies)
has no one had any experience with the GW Kent apple crusher? Or even
some opinions regarding it's potential? I don't care for the rollers
(being aluminum) but it is a double roller situation and the rest of the
unit is stainless steel. So I'll suggest again take a look at the page
http://www.gwkent.com/GWKent2003.pdf and search for "apple crusher".
jccampb
cider-request@talisman.com wrote:
> (snip)
> Re: "Quality presses" ("squeeze")
>
> Subject: Re: "Quality presses"
> From: "squeeze" <squeeze@mars.ark.com>
> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 10:24:57 -0800
>
> Nick Gunn asks about presses - I had an old Happy Valley Ranch press for
> long enough to "restore" it, and display it for a season
> <http://mars.ark.com/~squeeze/pics-pg/chidleys.html> and can say that they
> are good quality, and according to the previous owner, who used it for
> years, it works great - the usefullness of the double basket isn't for "a
> short time frame", rather it allows you to keep busy while the pressing is
> done slowly [tighten, let drip, tighten, let drip, repeat, repeat!], which
> is necessary w/ a ACME screw [as opposed to hydraulic] - the Correll press
> looks quite the same, and I can't see the real need to have a motor driven
> 'grinder', as the flywheel-like hand crank on the HVR works great w/ little
> effort and probably wouldn't be much, if any, slower.
>
> If you've got the time and skills [and the need], the government designed
> press and chopper on my website using a hydraulic jack is excellent.
> <http://mars.ark.com/~squeeze/ag-can/ag-book.htm#5>
>
> A while back, Dick suggested I write a bit for the digest on pressing, and
> we're into the season I can come up w/ the time for that, so I should,
> having many years experience on different equipment - now I've said it,
> maybe I'll feel compelled to do it!!
>
> Bill <http://mars.ark.com/~squeeze/>
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Harrison apple
From: Benjamin Watson <bwatson@monad.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:56:56 -0500
Jason MacArthur asks about sources for the Harrison apple.
I had the opportunity to sample the Harrison for the first time this
past November in Virginia. Tom Burford rediscovered Harrison after a
long search, being grown by a fellow in New Jersey (appropriate, since
Harrison is associated with Essex Co., NJ -- historically, an important
cider and apple region)
The apple is small, flattish, yellow with prominent black specks,
rather dry, and high-flavored. It's a late apple, but this was late
November, and the fruits I had were not at their peak. But you could
definitely get the sense that this apple "explodes" in the mouth at its
best, sort of like a good Spitzenburg or Newtown Pippin. I can see why
it would make a good cider apple. Historically, it was used along with
Graniwinkle, an indifferent eating apple, to make an almost legendary
cider. If you make cider with those two apples, please invite Tom and
myself.
Harrison is currently being grown by several orchardists in Virginia,
and that is probably the best place to look for scionwood. I would
email Tom Burford or Charlotte Shelton at Vintage Virginia Apples in
North Garden, VA (Jason, I can give you their addresses off-list if you
contact me).
As far as commercial sources go, the Fruit, Berry & Nut Inventory, 3rd
Ed. (2001) lists two: Cider Hill Nursery in Winchester, IL (which I
thought I heard has gone out of business?), and Orchard Lane Growers in
Gloucester, VA.
------------------------------
Subject: MLF
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 21:32:41 +0000
larry flynn wrote:
>
> This line of intended action brings shivers to me spine!. EEEWWW There ain't
> nothin worse mateys than some fool lets ML get goin in the bottle as it gives
> off a terrible stink and the terible stinkin gets trapped in the bottle and
> ew gosh almighty it'll send yee runnin to the sink ta pours it down the drain
Well I must admit that hasn't been my experience using a Lallemand
culture, nor when I've let a 'wild' MLF take place (which is the usual
course of events around here anyway). I'm not saying that taints don't
happen, only that it isn't always quite that bad! I wonder if Larry
is very sensitive to diacetyl (the buttery Chardonnay note) which is a
well-known MLF product. I personally am almost odour-blind to diacetyl
(as I know from early years when we were developing the Long Ashton
sensory panel) - I recognise 'buttery' but I suspect my perception of it
is not the same as other people's.
and Charles wrote:
> But as for MLF, malic acid is a 4 carbon acid, and lactic acid is a 3 carbon
> - - so you're only going to get 1 mole of carbon for each mole of malic acid -
> about 1/4 of the about of malic acid in general terms. More over, there's
> only a few tenths of a percent of malic acid in cider - unless you're
> running straight crab apples. So say 5-6 g/L malic acid - that's about 1.5
> g/L CO2. That's well under the 3.9 g/L required in order to put 'sparkling'
> on a label regulated by the ATF.
>
Spot on. Another point to bear in mind (and why the Ideal Gas Law is
only an approximation since it does not allow for gas solubility in
liquids) is that the saturation solubility of CO2 in water (cider) is
about 1.9 grams per litre at 60F (15 C). So you don't have as much CO2
available as gas as you thought you did (depending on how close to
saturation the cider already is due to action of the yeast) - much will
be in true solution and not available to form bubbles. In practice that
is why MLF only gives a light 'spritzig' character to a cider and never
a champagne style effervescence.
Mind you, that's no bad thing. IMHO, all good ciders should be
saturated with CO2, with maybe just a little over to give a few bubbles.
Exam question - CO2 is probably the most misunderestimated component
of cider and wine flavour - discuss!
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford, UK
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1114, 16 February 2004
From: "Reynold Tomes" <rtomes@burnsmcd.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:10:29 -0600
In Cider Digest #1114, Dick Dunn wrote... " The efficiency of a press
like the HVR is severely limited. There are two limit points: the
quality of the grinding and the pressing in the basket. On the latter:
the problem is that the mass of pulp binds up; once you get that 12"
high 12" cylinder bound up, you can put extraordinary amounts of
pressure on it and nothing will happen. The problem is that the juice
just can't get out, and the harder you push the more the juice is
trapped. This is why a rack/cloth press works so much better: there
are channels for the juice every couple inches."
I might be flaunting my ignorance since I don't actually press my own
apples but an idea just came to mind regarding the pulp binding issue
you mentioned. I assume that the HPV press uses a filter bag inside of
the press basket similar to the Correll cider press. Why not obtain
some suitable fabric and improvise a cheese inside of the filter bag? I
envision the cheese fabric would be about as wide as the diameter of the
press basket and approx. 10 feet long. To start, one end of the cheese
fabric would be draped across the floor of the filter bag. A 2-inch
layer of apple pomace would then be placed upon it. Next, the cheese
fabric would be folded back across the pomace layer and another 2-inch
layer of pomace would be placed on top of it. The process of placing
2-inch pomace layers separated by cheese fabric folded accordian-style
would be repeated until you reach the top of the press basket. The
cheese fabric layers would allow the extracted juice to drain outward
more efficiently from the pomace into the filter bag and subsequently
increase your juice recovery. The one-piece cheese fabric should also
be easy to cleanup and reuse too! Hey, looks good on paper...
Regards,
Reynold
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Sweet sparkling cider--John Howard
From: Warren Place <wrplace@ucdavis.edu>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 19:42:04 -0800 (PST)
On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 Michael Arighi wrote:
> I use champagne bottles. Pretty strong. Used to know their rated
> strength, new (my Dad did QC for a glass bottle manufacturer), which was
> somewhere on the order of 2-3 atmospheres. But I expect you'd be able to
> drive the punt end halfway through the wall with that amount of gas.
I think champagne bottles can withstand up to 6 ATM of pressure,
but you'll have to check that yourself. Bill Rhyne and I have talked
about the in bottle pastuerization they have done. The archive should
have it somewhere. I remember that some bottles are lost, but it is
a small precentage. Also, the water bath helps cushion the
explosion. Still, it isn't safe if the proper precautions aren't
followed. I'd read up on it before making an attempt. Also, if you
let the cider ferment to dryness and settle out the yeast,
pasteurization will be more effective as there will be less yeast
in the bottle that need killing. If your cold ferment has just stalled,
but has many viable yeast in suspension, pastuerization might not work as
well.
Warren Place
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1115
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