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Cider Digest #1121
Subject: Cider Digest #1121, 15 March 2004
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1121 15 March 2004
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
cider carbonation (Steve Mittler)
Priming with starter and sugar (Fred Johnson)
Re: Sources for cider friendly tree sprays (Tim Bray)
Root pruning of apples (Andrew Lea)
root pruning (Jack O Feil)
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Subject: cider carbonation
From: Steve Mittler <steve@plum.me.uk>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:15:32 +0000
Not having used a counter pressure before, is it a device that keeps the
bottle sealed from air even when the bottle cap is put on? Or doesn't a
small exposure to air while the cap is put on matter?
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Subject: Priming with starter and sugar
From: Fred Johnson <FLJohnson@portbridge.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 05:42:01 -0500
Ed offered a method for priming a still cider with yeast and sugar to
bottle condition a cider. In my opinion, Ed's method of rehydrating the
yeast for a few hours in the concentrated priming sugar solution
(1/2-3/4 cup sugar) is a poor way of preparing the yeast. All
manufacturers of yeast that I have seen recommend rehydrating the yeast
in water, and a concentrated sugar solution is the last thing a
dehydrated yeast needs to see right out of the package. The reason for
this is that the yeast cell membranes are leaky upon initial hydration.
The yeast need a short time (15 min) to repair these membranes before
being exposed to a highly osmotic solution. If they haven't had a
chance to repair the cell membrane, the high sugar solution will do
more damage than good to the cells. After they've repaired their
membranes, they need some food and should be provided that. This can be
the batch. There are plenty of cells in a packet of dried yeast to
condition a five gallon batch--no real need for a starter culture of
yeast.
One should hydrate the yeast separately from the sugar solution and add
them separately to the batch or to the bottles. (Be sure to mix the
concentrated sugar solution THOROUGHLY into the batch if one is batch
priming.)
Fred L Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA
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Subject: Re: Sources for cider friendly tree sprays
From: Tim Bray <tbray@mcn.org>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 15:09:34 -0800
>Any recommendations as far as types/brands
>of sprays as well as places to obtain them?
Well, that's kind of like asking what kind of car to buy, and where to get
the best deal. Depends on what you need ! First figure out what (or IF)
you need to spray for. Then check out this site:
http://fruitsandnuts.ucdavis.edu/
And especially this one:
http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/selectnewpest.apples.html
That should get you on the way to figuring out why, what, and when to spray
(or not). Be aware that apples for cider will not need the kind of spray
programs that market fruit needs - much spraying is actually to combat
mostly cosmetic problems (e.g. scab). But it all depends on your location
and which pests are active, and how bad they really are. You have a lot of
research to do and choices to make!
Having said all that, a dormant oil spray is probably the first thing to
consider, and it is quite safe for cider. (I never got around to dormant
spraying this year, and now things are leafing out already, so I'm just
hoping my trees are healthy enough to cope with the mites and aphids.)
Cheers,
Tim
------------------------------
Subject: Root pruning of apples
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:47:17 +0000
Thomas Beckett wrote:
> Here is perhaps an odd question from a novice orchardist. Does
> anyone here have experience with root-pruning cider apple trees? This
> would be something along the lines of deeply spading a line of
> circumference around the base of the tree to trim the surface roots.
> The idea is to encourage the tree to root more deeply into the ground
> and partake of the mineral content found in the lower stratas of soil.
Well I'm no orchardist so this reply is from a position of deep
ignorance, but I never heard of root pruning apples for this purpose.
When it is done with apples it is generally to restrict growth and
therefore to encourage over-vigorous trees to switch to flower-bud
formation in response to the induced stress. There is a picture of this
being done in the now out of print RHS 'Fruit Garden Displayed'.
My understanding is that apples and grapes grow very differently. Apples
have a tap root to hold the tree in place and stop it being blown over,
but their feeding roots are close to the surface. Root pruning will not
change this basic physiology. Grapes have fewer surface roots but can
develop very long tap roots in dry conditions which can also act as
feeding / moisture uptake roots if required. I believe in poor stony
soils like the Rhineland and the Mosel in Germany these can go many
metres down to seek the nutrients they need.
Hopefully an expert will put us right on this! I would certainly like
to think that 'terroir' has a place in cider growing - in traditional UK
cider areas the difference between Devon sandstone, Somerset alluvial
clay and Gloucestershire limestone hills has always been held to be
reflected in the characteristics of the cider from each region. Not
that any one is 'better' - just different!
Andrew Lea
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: root pruning
From: Jack O Feil <feilorchards@juno.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 00:35:33 -0800
Thomas ask about root pruning to force roots deeper. I don't know
anything about grapes but I've been growing fruit trees for many years.
First of all, most of the soil nutrients are located within the first few
inches of soil where the organic matter mulches and decays and is carried
down to the first foot or so where most of the feeder roots are located
and these roots intercept the nutrients as the are carried down with
water(rain or irrigation).Also root depth( in fruit trees) is
characteristic of the particular variety of root stock that the tree is
grafted to, some are shallow rooted and some are deep rooted that's their
nature. You may be able to force roots a little deeper by letting the top
soil become dry, but forcing roots down to a depth where there are fewer
available nutrients and drying up the feeder roots would serve no useful
purpose other than to better anchor the tree. There may be other factors
that apply to apples for cider but for fresh fruit you want the tree to
have an abundance of nutrients and enough water to avoid stress. One way
to simulate apples that come from a stressed tree is to sweat plump juicy
apples to the point of shrivel and then juice them.
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End of Cider Digest #1121
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