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Cider Digest #1094
From: cider-request@talisman.com
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Subject: Cider Digest #1094, 29 November 2003
Cider Digest #1094 29 November 2003
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
member introduction (Alistair Bell)
Yeast surveys (was: Nervous Questions of a Cider Virgin), CD#1093, 200 (R...)
small press on ebay ("squeeze")
interesting point on "organic cider" (Dick Dunn)
Carbonating Cider? ("Peter Johnson")
Bladder presses for cider (Terry and Julie Bradshaw)
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Subject: member introduction
From: Alistair Bell <albell@shaw.ca>
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:34:30 -0800
Hi,
Just joined list and thought I'd give a very brief intro.
We live on the Saanich Peninsula, north of Victoria, B.C.
Been making cider since '94 when we moved to a property with about an acre
of poorly maintained apple trees. Mostly Spartans, and some Jonagold. I also
have some access to additional apples via my wife's workplace (Lard
Lambournes, Delicious, Empires etc). Yes, not cider apples but hey, you work
with what you have!
Every year we make from 200 to 400 litres of cider. We have an old
"Muser-Max" electric grinder and a basket type press (ratchet screw). For
the first few years we did primary fermentation in an open plywood box
(large waxed vessel that was used for wine making) but latterly we have been
using a 225 litre food grade HDPE barrel.
We juice the fruit around Oct. (although this year we got around to doing it
mid Nov.) and inoculate with bayanus yeast. Often fermentation takes a week
to get started and we let it ferment in the barrel for about 3 weeks to a
month. This year due to the cold temps (around 4C in the "cider making
barn") we put the barrel on a stand and had a heater under it to kick start
the culture (must temp around 14C). With this, and a large inoculum of
yeast, fermentation started in 3 days. Once activity was noted the heater
was removed.
We rack into 50+ litre glass carboys and let it sit through the winter with
maybe one more racking around Feb, before bottling/kegging in the spring.
The cider we produce is dry, tart, and very popular. Either its bottled in
champagne bottles (primed with glucose and in some years a touch of yeast
culture) or kegged as needed in 17 litre Cornelius kegs. In the kegs I
carbonate with CO2. The kegging is a great labour saver but the cider gets
drunk faster.
Some years we make the effort to collect as many apples as we can find from
"wild" hedgerow trees around the area. This is an effort to get more tannic
fruit.
All in all I am please with the cider we make (and isn't that the important
thing?) but would like to have a better selection of apples and a more
efficient press.
Cheers,
Alistair
albell@shaw.ca
------------------------------
Subject: Yeast surveys (was: Nervous Questions of a Cider Virgin), CD#1093, 200
From: Ross McKay <rosko@zeta.org.au>
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:01:00 +1100
John Howard (no, not the PM, the other one) wrote:
>...
>I am also conducting an experiment with different yeasts. Five 5gal carboys
>with identical juice, five different yeasts: B71, D47, 1118, Wyeast Cider,
>and wild. I'm testing, recording, and graphing sg each week. Will publish
>here eventually.
Good stuff, I for one will be interested to hear the results. I have
used EC-1118 in the past, and I reckon it squeezed the life out of my
cider (made from juice of eating apples). I have been using D-47 lately,
but also better apples, so who knows whether D-47 is any better really?
If you haven't seen it already, here is another yeast comparison by one
of your fellow North Americans:
http://mars.ark.com/~squeeze/yest-cdn.html
cheers,
Ross.
- --
Ross McKay, WebAware Pty Ltd
"The lawn could stand another mowing; funny, I don't even care"
- - Elvis Costello
------------------------------
Subject: small press on ebay
From: "squeeze" <squeeze@mars.ark.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:08:04 -0800
in case anyone is interested [and another digest appears shortly] there's a
small press w/ motor powered shredder on e-bay [from Calif], auction
expiring Nov30 -
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2575123075&category=11751
- - low price so far, but w/ a reserve
Bill <http://mars.ark.com/~squeeze/>
------------------------------
Subject: interesting point on "organic cider"
From: rcd@talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:30:15 -0700 (MST)
I learned about the following not long ago, and thought other readers
might find it interesting...a reason you're not likely to find a lot of
commercial cider labeled "organic".
The problem is sulfites. The use of sulfites in wine and cider making is
long-standing and generally accepted as long as it doesn't get out of hand.
The case for sulfites is arguably even better for cider than for wine, since
cider is typically about half the alcohol of wine (hence less preservative
effect from alcohol). Many, perhaps most, of us use sulfites in our ciders.
Even if you're trying to start with the wild yeasts on the fruit and the
equipment, a low level of sulfite will help without killing off the yeast
you want.
Now, "organic" (in the legal sense) cider *does* allow the use of sulfites,
both in the US and in the EU (and UK), up to a prescribed maximum level.
The bad-news part is that the method is restricted: You can only use SO2!
You cannot use metabisulfites (Na or K--the powder or the maligned-but-
ubiquitous Campden tablets) and label the result as organic.
Roger Mansfield (Traditional Co. cider) brought this up at a panel at
Franklin County Cider Day, and I've since heard this from a second reliable
source, and checked it with a third.
Apparently the only accepted procedure is to inject SO2 gas which dissolves
in the cider or wine. I'm not clear on whether the SO2 would actually be
*stored* as a gas, or kept cold/pressurized as a liquid. I'm not sure it
matters...the idea is (from my non-chemist but technical viewpoint) insanely
dangerous!
For sulfiting, on the one hand, you have long-standing procedures for using
metabisulfite powder, and while you don't want to eat it or fluff the powder
in front of a fan, it is fairly safe with normal precautions. It's stuff
you can buy in a neighborhood brew shop. BUT that's out, not acceptable
for organic cider/wine. On the other hand you have SO2, a colorless but
corrosive, suffocating gas which has to be handled as a hazardous material...
and that's OK for organic!
Sheesh. How does it sound to say you'd feel OK living next-door to a
cidery...as long as they were NOT making organic cider?!?
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Carbonating Cider?
From: "Peter Johnson" <johnson_peter@sbcglobal.net>
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:47:41 -0600
Has anyone tried carbonating cider using the same method that beer
homebrewers use? My local store calls it "kegging" although it doesn't
appear to use a keg in the traditional sense. You place approximately 5
gallons in a pressure vessel and add CO2. This sits for about three days
and then you inject the carbonated cider into bottles and cap immediately.
I've used the more traditional method of adding sugar at bottling time but
the problem with this method is I end up with sediment at the bottom of my
bottles. I've read about methods for removing the sediment but I was hoping
to find a process that carbonates the cider without producing sediment.
Thank you,
Peter Johnson
------------------------------
Subject: Bladder presses for cider
From: Terry and Julie Bradshaw <madshaw@innevi.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 10:31:03 -0500
I was wondering if anyone here has had experience with using a bladder
press for making cider. The units I refer to are Italian, generally 5-40
gallons per squeeze (though they make them bigger). An example can be seen
here:
http://www.morebeer.com/detail.php3?pid=WE150
I am wondering about yield efficiency, time per cycle, etc. I may want to
skip a rack and cloth press and go this route, especially if it gives me
more options, such as squeezing grapes. I already have a good pomace grinder.
Thanks,
Terry
Terence Bradshaw
1189 Wheeler Road
Calais, VT 05648
madshaw@innevi.com
(802)229-2004
The views represented by me are mine and mine only................
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End of Cider Digest #1094
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