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Cider Digest #1084
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Subject: Cider Digest #1084, 16 October 2003
Cider Digest #1084 16 October 2003
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Faux Foxwhelp - another $0.02 ("Charles McGonegal")
Re: Yeasts ("T. J. Higgins")
Hardy cider apples ("Dunlop, Steve")
Foxwhelp ("Drew Zimmerman")
Yeasts ("Drew Zimmerman")
Palmer Cider Supply Press ("5585")
"Cider house blues" article (Dick Dunn)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Faux Foxwhelp - another $0.02
From: "Charles McGonegal" <cpm@aeppeltreow.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:01:59 -0500
Tim Bray's description pretty much matches the apple Herb Teichman has in
his collection in Michigan. Pale green instead of brown, but otherwise big
and blah. It's remarkably like the Wolf River grown in this area - but not
quite _that_ big.
Now, if only I had a clue what my faux Chisel Jersey (Hmmm... it doesn't
aliterate the same way) really is. At least it's a neat apple - whatever it
is.
Charles McGonegal
AEppelTreow Winery
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Yeasts
From: "T. J. Higgins" <tjhiggin@ant.hiwaay.net>
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:32:53 -0500 (CDT)
John Howard in Philly asked for yeast suggestions. I've had pretty
good luck with Wyeast #3766 Cider yeast. This year I'm going to
try #3184 Sweet Mead yeast in one of my ciders; it worked very well
in a mead last year, so I'm curious how it will do in a cider.
http://www.wyeastlab.com/wprlist.htm
Any homebrew shop should be able to order any Wyeast strain you
want.
T.J. Higgins
Huntsville, AL
------------------------------
Subject: Hardy cider apples
From: "Dunlop, Steve" <dunlops@nextnetwireless.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:15:05 -0500
Jim Ludke was kind enough to send this list of hardy cider apples. I have
Converted it to text format to post here, with his permission.
Variety Type Ripening Time Hardy? Vintage Qualty?
- -------------------- --------- ------------- ------------ ---------------
Breakwell's Seedling B# Aug Y (Jolicoeur) -
Browns # Mid-Late Y (Jolicoeur) Y
(Andrew Lea)
Bulmer's Norman Bsweet Sept-Mid Y [Note 1] -
Chisel Jersey Bsweet Nov Y (Jolicoeur) -
Dolgo Crab # - (B#?) Sept-Early Y [Note 2] ?
Egremont Russet Sweet Early-Mid Sept Y -
Golden Russet Sweet Oct Late Y Y? trad.
in US
Muscadet De Dieppe Bsweet, B#? Sept Mid Y (Jolicoeur) Y
Porter's Perfection B# Nov Later Y (Jolicoeur) -
Stoke Red B# Y (Jolicoeur) Y
(Andrew Lea)
Tom Putt B# Late Aug Y [Note 3] -
Tremlitts Bitter Bsweet Y (Jolicoeur) -
Yarlington Mill Bsweet Oct Mid Y (Jolicoeur) Y
(Andrew Lea)
Note 1. Claude Jolicoeur reports this apple is hardy. Jim Ludke reports that
2 of 2 survived the 2000-2001 test winter in Minnesota.
Note 2. The Dolgo is widely reported to be hardy through USDA Zone 3.
Note 3. Jim Ludke reports that all 4 of his trees came thru 2000-2001 winter,
but 2 died back to ~10" above ground
Variety Sources Available As
- -------------------- --------------------------------- -------------
Breakwell's Seedling WSU Scion
Browns Cummins
Bulmer's Norman Botner, WSU Scion
Chisel Jersey Geneva, Botner, WSU, Fedco 2 year old
tree
Dolgo Crab Many
Egremont Russet Various
Golden Russet Many Whip
Muscadet De Dieppe Botner, Cummins Scion
Porter's Perfection
Stoke Red Botner, Cummins
Tom Putt Geneva, Bear Creek, Botner Scion
Tremlitts Bitter
Yarlington Mill Geneva, Bear Creek, Botner, Fedco 2 year old
tree
- ---
Steve Dunlop
Nerstrand, MN
------------------------------
Subject: Foxwhelp
From: "Drew Zimmerman" <drewzimmer@comcast.net>
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:14:53 -0700
The Foxwhelp described by Derek and Tim is also prevalent around Puget
Sound. It came from the WSU Research Station which got it from Geneva
in 1994. Although it is an uneven ripener, soft, and not a good keeper,
it makes a pretty fair cider. The cider is clean and crisp with citrus
notes. When aged for a year or two it mellows nicely and is quite
drinkable. Although we have not much need of another sharp apple, give
this one a chance after your trees mature a bit.
Drew Zimmerman
------------------------------
Subject: Yeasts
From: "Drew Zimmerman" <drewzimmer@comcast.net>
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:30:29 -0700
John Howard asked about cold fermenting yeasts for cider. We did some
trials on various yeasts with Jonagold juice not too long ago. We
fermented at 50F. Most of the strains had a lower limit of 60F and
produced H2S at 50F, a sign that they were out of their preferred temp.
range. The one yeast that performed really well was Wyeast Cider. It
was quick to start and fermented at a steady pace. It would probably do
quite well at 40F.
An interesting note on the flavor profiles of the 10 samples. They all
tasted the same. There were only a very few subtle differences, if any.
In the evaluation, there was no yeast that stood out, the Wyeast and
wild yeast scored one point above the rest.
Here's another write-up on cider yeasts:
http://mars.ark.com/~squeeze/yest-cdn.html
Drew
------------------------------
Subject: Palmer Cider Supply Press
From: "5585" <5585@email.msn.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:08:41 -0700
Does anyone on the list know about the history of the Palmer Cider
Supply Press. I found one in an old barn.
Thanks
Tim
------------------------------
Subject: "Cider house blues" article
From: rcd@talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:21:16 -0600 (MDT)
Last Saturday's London Times carried an article about the woes of cider
apple growers in England's West Country. You might still be able to catch
the article in the next day or so (they appear to keep a week on-line) by
going to
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/ => Saturday => Weekend Review =>
Country Life => Cider house blues
The gist of it is that apple growers are in dire straits: the major
producers will only buy from growers with existing contracts, and even then
their allocations may be halved; small growers are out of luck; lots of
apples will simply be left for wildlife or to rot; orchards are being cut
down; the price of cider apples, and cider itself, is rock-bottom.
(The article mentioned cider apples at a price of 90 pounds per ton, and
I've seen echoes of similar prices on the ukcider list recently. To
translate that for US readers, imagine cider varieties of apples at $2.50/
bushel!)
What's going on? The article points to the large producers (Matthew Clark
in particular) for buying so few apples and for depressing the price. Then
it traces the reduction in cider-apple purchases to the fact that the mass
market ciders don't have all that much apple juice in them; loopholes in
the laws allow unlimited additions of water, sugars, and sugar syrups. I
found it a bit confusing in that at one point the article claims a ton of
apples is good for 150 gallons of cider made entirely from juice, where
with the sugar/water additions it can be pushed to 450 gallons from a ton
of apples. At another point the article claims that Matthew Clark is only
pressing one-NINTH the quantity of apples it would need in order to produce
their published volume of cider. That might be accounted for by some of
the "white cider" and other non-cider drinks they produce; I don't know.
But even taking the 150 vs 450 gallon figures, it's a shame. It's saying
that these commercial "ciders" are coming up as only 1/3 from juice! If
you've ever wondered how the big-commercial ciders (the 4- and 6-pack cans
and bottles) come up with so little character compared to what a craft or
amateur cider-maker would create...there's your answer.
(If you wonder why they have any character at all!...read the label, since
we're fortunate in the US to have ingredient requirements for some classes
of "cider". The tricks lie in adding acid to create an apparent bit of
apple character, and using apple juice concentrate at bottling, where a
little goes a long way although it adds a juice taste rather than a cider
taste.)
I don't know whether this revelation that there's not much cider in UK
industrial cider is going to become a big scandal or a tempest in a tea-
pot. I'd hope it would wake up a few Britons to what has happened...and
is continuing to happen...to a beverage that ought to be one of their
proudest national traditions.
One of the scary parts of the article is the idea of losing orchards because
the orchards lose money. You can't blame the farmers for pulling out of a
losing proposition. But when you think about pulling out old standard trees
you have to realize that even if there were an immediate turnaround in the
cider industry ("not bloody likely!" as they say) it would take more than
a decade to replant and get new trees back to bearing...and even longer to
get them to an age where they are producing top-quality fruit.
Final note: I am quite aware that I'm writing this from an (anglophile
perhaps) American perspective, and that this is not a good place from which
to cast stones! Some of those same British ciders show up in our stores,
as I indicated, and they're arguably better than the US alco-pops beside
them. (K and Dry Blackthorn are Matthew Clark products, in case you're
curious.) We've got our own problems with sugared-up/diluted-down cider.
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1084
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