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Cider Digest #1088
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Errors-To: cider-errors@talisman.com
Reply-To: cider@talisman.com
To: cider-list@talisman.com
Subject: Cider Digest #1088, 30 October 2003
Cider Digest #1088 30 October 2003
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
erratic digests (Cider Digest Admin)
French cidre cultivar survey ("McGonegal, Charles")
Sturmers (Andrew Lea)
Sturmer Pippin ("squeeze")
Re: Cider Digest #1087, 27 October 2003 (jack o feil)
RE: Cracking Cox ("Richard & Susan Anderson")
Re: Index (Cider Digest Admin)
Sturmers ("Jeff Weickhardt")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: erratic digests
From: cider-request@talisman.com (Cider Digest Admin)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:26:00 -0700 (MST)
Cider Digests will be erratic (but not nonexistent) over the next two weeks
or so. Your janitor will be exploring the world of cider a little bit (as
opposed to the world of spam and broken email programs:).
Be patient; it'll be back on track soon.
- ---
Cider Digest cider-request@talisman.com
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor Boulder County, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: French cidre cultivar survey
From: "McGonegal, Charles" <Charles.McGonegal@uop.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:59:53 -0600
I would like to ask for a little CD membership input,
Given the chance, what one French cider cultivar not currently available in
the US would you have imported?
Please send you 2 cents to:
pommiers@aeppeltreow.com
BTW - my own choices would be among chevalier juane, frequin gris, dous
moen.
And the question is not academic. I am importing a few this year. And have
some in quarantine currently (Doux Eveque and Toussaint Chevalier). Guess
we'll get to try them in a decade ot so!
Charles McGonegal
AEppelTreow Winery
------------------------------
Subject: Sturmers
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:49:10 +0000
Stuart Grant wrote:
> I've been unable to find out much about them, except that
> they're also called Sturmer's Pippins, and that they're incredibly high in
> Vit C (I presume this will give my cider good anti-oxidant propeties).
>
> Does anyone know anything about Sturmers.
Sturmer is actually a British apple named in 1831 but our climate is not
good enough in most years for it to finish properly. It was adopted in
Australia and NZ many generations ago and formed the foundation of their
extensive export trade to the UK.
It may have very high Vit C as an apple but virtually no Vit C perists
from apples into juice. That is because the polyphenol oxidase systemn
in the apple (which generates the brown colour) destroys the Vit C too.
The antioxidant properties of cider and apple juice are not due to Vit
C (unless it's been added back). They are due to other flavonoid
polyphenols. Lots of really interesting work on this topic coming out
of Cornell University (NYSAES Geneva campus) right now!
Andrew Lea, nr Oxford, UK
- --
Wittenham Hill Cider Page
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Sturmer Pippin
From: "squeeze" <squeeze@mars.ark.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 05:40:42 -0800
Stuart asked about info on Sturmer Pippin - here in coastal British
Columbia it's a good [not great] variety - local reference says it's from
Suffolk, 1831 a cross of Ribston Pippin and NonPareil. a *very* late
dessert apple, it needs warmth, which we don't always get in a coastal
situation, but it's a good cropper and produces a tree of moderate size -
haven't heard of the high vit C, but in my experience that will produce a
juice of lightest color [and very uncommon in apples] - your evaluation of
very high acidity may be that you're not letting them ripen fully B4
picking, and as a great keeper they will 'mellow' w/ storage - also as a
dessert apple they won't have high tannin.
Hope this helps!
Bill <http://mars.ark.com/~squeeze/>
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1087, 27 October 2003
From: jack o feil <feilorchards@juno.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:44:49 -0800
Jack Feil
Wenatchee, Washington
Stem cracking may be suppressed by spraying with a material
called ProVide. In my commercial operation we use this material to
improve finish on russet prone varieties such as Golden Delicious and
Stayman. ProVide is an excellent material for that purpose and is also
recommenced to reduce stem cracking on Stayman, I have used it for that
purpose and it does work. However, it won't prevent cracking due to over
maturity.
As a beginner at cider making , this forum has been a gold mine
of useful information. I don't know how much is involved in indexing the
cider digest archives but I agree with Laird Thompson, it sure would
enhance the ability to access previous information.
Jack
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Cracking Cox
From: "Richard & Susan Anderson" <baylonanderson@rockisland.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:53:07 -0800
Hold off on the nitrogen, the cracking, like bitterpit is an imbalance of
calcium and nitrogen in the leaf. This is often caused not by insufficient
calcium but to much nitrogen. We experience a similar problem in our young
orchard particularly with the Cox, Sweet Coppin and Foxwelps, by applying
the amount of nitrogen recommended by the company doing our soil testing.
Once we eliminated the addition of nitrogen the problem was cleared up. The
mystery "Foxwelps" still seem to be susceptible, but only about 5% of the
crop is affected.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Index
From: cider-request@talisman.com (Cider Digest Admin)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:06:24 -0700 (MST)
"laird thompson" <laird@joink.com> asked in CD 1087:
> ...Has anyone ever created an index
> on the subjects covered over the years? This would turn the archives
> into a valued reference for those having problems or just looking to try
> something different.
Nobody has brought an index to my attention; I'd expect I would have heard.
I agree that it's a good idea, but neither I nor my alter-ego (rcd) have
anywhere near enough time to attempt it. If it existed, I'd make it known
here (as I have with the searchable archive of the MLD).
If someone, or some group, wanted to attempt it, first think carefully
about what you're up against. A mechanically-generated index isn't likely
to be of much use; some words are far too common but require context for
proper indexing. Discussion threads don't work well because a lot of
replies give a subject line of "Re: Cider Digest #xxx..." The digest is
*not* edited or moderated, so it's rife with misspellings plus the mixture
of American and British variations. You'd probably want to convert the
digests into HTML so that index references could be done with hypertext
links to individual articles.
Finally, consider that there have been plenty of wrong answers and bad
advice over the history of the digest. I may have learned a few things in
the past ten years (I hope) but every bit of my former ignorance and every
stupid thing I ever wrote is enshrined in the archives for posterity!
In particular to that, some topics keep coming up--keeving, sorbate/sulfite,
pH vs TA--frequently with wrong answers at the start. If you selected the
wrong set of articles relative to a topic, you could come away with a very
wrong answer, reinforced by seeing the same wrong answer many times over
the years of the digest. And honestly I can't think of a way to avoid
that.
I don't want to talk anyone out of attempting an index...it would be nice
to have. But I'd want you to realize the main pitfalls before you started
on such a project.
(Personally, I just use a text search program and grub around in the
archives until I hit on a likely phrase.)
- ---
Cider Digest cider-request@talisman.com
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor Boulder County, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Sturmers
From: "Jeff Weickhardt" <cabalus@netconnect.com.au>
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:22:11 +1100
Stuart Grant
Hobart, Tasmania, Australia.
Asked
"Does anyone know anything about Sturmers."
The Booklet "Apples Old & New" by Clive Winmill of the Badgers Keep
(Apple Tree Nursery at Chewton, Victoria, Australia), describes the
Sturmer Pippin as follows:
"Dessert, late harvest, England (Suffolk) 1831. Fruit medium size,
flushed, russeted, crisp, rich, briskly sweet, good keeper. Tree
slender, good cropper, flowers midseason, diploid, 'Indispensable for
late use ... exceedingly desirable'. Pick as late as possible to develop
full flavour. Red Sports exist."
For any Australians interested in planting Cider Varieties, Badgers Keep
has 18 cultivars listed for sale:
Frequin Rouge, Breakwells Seedling, Brown Snout, Browns Apple, Bulmers
Norman, Dabinett, Egleton Styre, Golden Harvey, Improved Foxwhelp,
Kingston Black,Michelin,Reine des Hatives, Somerset Redstreak, Stoke
Red, Sweet Alford, Sweet Coppin, Tremletts Bitter, and Yarlington Mill.
They also have a couple of hundred dessert varieties for sale.
Jeff Weickhardt
Beremboke
Victoria
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1088
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