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Cider Digest #1118
Subject: Cider Digest #1118, 2 March 2004
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1118 2 March 2004
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Bentonite Reaction? ("Mark Parranto")
small-scale solutions (Grant Family)
Back to the presses (Nick Gunn)
Ice Cider question ("McGonegal, Charles")
Cider Making Courses ("Drew Zimmerman")
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Subject: Bentonite Reaction?
From: "Mark Parranto" <apple@mninter.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 21:26:43 -0600
After I added bentonite to my cider I noticed a large decrease in acidity. I
can't figure it out. I have read everything I can find. Almost all
discussions of bentonite claim that it may leach out tannins, but nothing is
ever said about the acid content.
To set up the situation, a little background is in order. This years batch
started out the same as last years, with the same mix of sweet and tart
apples that I use when selling cider in the orchard. This would be a mix of
Honeygold, Cortland, Fireside and some of any other sweet variety that I had
on hand to make up 50% of the batch, and the other 1/2 a mix of Haralson and
Liberty. When I mix up the juices to ferment I add about 20% Chestnut Crab
for the tannin and sugars. Yeast is usually Lalvin V1116. This year I did
the same process, but because some of my wine drinking friends criticized
the slight haze in the cider I thought that I would try fining with
bentonite. After racking I tested the ph with a meter at 3.7. This was in
the normal range I usually get at 3.6 to 3.8. I added the bentonite per the
directions on the package. After 2 weeks everything looked clear and
still. I racked again and tested the ph at 6.1. I was shocked. I had only
recently bought the ph meter, so I opened a bottle of last years batch (
only 4 left, I'll never make it to the fall ) and found the ph to be 4.0,
about what I would expect since I cold store the cider to age it for about
4- 5 months before bottling.
Ok, I used the same procedure as in previous years and everything seemed the
same up to the addition of bentonite. Has anybody got an idea what
happened? I'm not too sure about trying to raise the acid up to .6%, which
is where I read that cider should end up. I checked my meter with a
titration test that showed about .2% acid, so I know the acid is really low.
Has anybody tried to raise acid this much with either tartaric or malic
commercial compounds? I think that with cold aging the cider will lose even
more acid and will end up insipid. I would be interested in any suggestions
from the group. Thanks
Mark Parranto
Applewood Orchard
------------------------------
Subject: small-scale solutions
From: Grant Family <grants@netspace.net.au>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 17:18:16 +1100
G'day,
Although my house was built on an orchard (of Sturmers/Sturmer Pippins), we
only have two trees left, and only one of them ever survives the annual
possum pig-out. Still, the remaining tree (singular - I know that must
sound funny to you orchardiers out there) fruits very well. The ex-orchard
must be over fifty years old, I'd say. I'm hopefully able to use about 5%
crab apples in the cider this season. Last year was the first year I made
cider and of course I knew nothing and made some heretical errors. I'm
getting ready to make this year's batch (it's late summer in Aus.) and I'd
like to make one large batch, if possible, rather than last year's multiple
1/2 gallon batches.
Question: since my crab-apple tree fruits at a different time to my apple
tree, and since (obviously) not all the apples are ready at the same time,
what would be the best way of keeping the fruit/juice ready for a main
fermentation? Is it:
1) to freeze the whole fruit;
2) to freeze the pulped fruit;
3) to freeze the juice;
4) to ferment the first gallon of juice when it ready, then add fresh juice
on top of this as it becomes available;
5) to stick to smaller fermentations?
Thanks
Stuart Grant
Hobart, Tasmania, Australia.
ps. I've got a pale, snotty, algae-like substance developing on the bottom
of my last remaining bottle of cider form last year (it's been bottled
about 10 months now) - what is it?
------------------------------
Subject: Back to the presses
From: Nick Gunn <nnugkcin@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 10:19:30 -0800 (PST)
Thank you all so much for your recommendations on
press and grinder options. After careful consideration
and discussion with other cider makers, I've decided
to build my own hydraulic press and hopefully come
upon a used hammer mill, or perhaps construct a
grinder out of a high power garbage disposal. I came
to these conclusions with my future growth in mind, as
I hope to produce a commercial cider in 2005. Maybe
just 150-200 gallons to start, but the lack of quality
fruit, and time necessary to crank on the screw,
forces me to weight my decision heavily on efficiency.
My question now is: what hydraulic press plans have
folks found to work well at reasonable costs? As well,
can anyone reccomend a source for a relatively
inexpensive hammer mill? Thanks again for all the
input.
Cheers,
Nick Gunn
Salem, Oregon
------------------------------
Subject: Ice Cider question
From: "McGonegal, Charles" <Charles.McGonegal@uop.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:15:52 -0600
I've been monitoring the Ralph Shay crabs hanging on the trees over the
winter. They are up over 21 Brix now, from about 16.
I haven't picked enough to do a titratable acidity on. Does anyone have some
experience with ice cider? Can I expect the TA to go up with the Brix, or
are there competing processes out in the field over the winter that would
reduce the acidity?
Charles
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Making Courses
From: "Drew Zimmerman" <drewzimmer@comcast.net>
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:39:56 -0800
The Northwest Cider Society is offering two week long seminar series
courses on cider making in May at the WSU Research Station in Mt.
Vernon, WA. These courses are presented by Peter Mitchell of Mitchell
F&D Limited, Worcestershire, UK.
The first course "Cider Making - Principles and Practice" is a repeat of
the highly acclaimed program presented last November. If you want to
learn all you need to know to start producing cider, or to gain further
knowledge, understanding and skills to assist you improve the
effectiveness of your process and quality of your products, and/or to
get a detailed and comprehensive insight into cider and perry production
- - then, this is the course to attend. This course will run from May 3rd
through May 7th and includes the seminars "An Introduction to Cider
Making", "Practical Production of Cider", "Aspects of Commercial
Production" and "Sensory Analysis. Trouble Shooting". The cost for the
week is $675. Each seminar may be purchased and attended separately if
you don't want the full series.
The second course "Commercial Cider and Drinks Production" which builds
on the first aims to provide: knowledge and understanding of the
principles and application of downstream processing, packaging and
labeling to meet commercial and market-place requirements; a broad
appreciation and experience of the processes and practice of product
development; an exploration of the principles, strategies and practices
involved in product marketing and sales; practical assistance to
entrepreneurs, small and medium size businesses and others in drawing
up, monitoring and controlling business, marketing and quality plans.
This course, consisting of 3 seminars, will run from May 10th through
May 14th. Cost for the week is $675, but each seminar may be purchased
and attended separately if you wish.
If you are interested, or have any questions, please contact me off
Digest for syllabuses, registration and other info. You may also see
information on these courses at http://www.mitchell-food-drink.co.uk
The attendance for these courses is limited to assure that full
attention and support is provided, so it's recommended that you register
as soon as possible.
Drew Zimmerman
drewzimmer@comcast.net
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1118
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