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Cider Digest #1041
From: cider-request@talisman.com
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Subject: Cider Digest #1041, 17 May 2003
Cider Digest #1041 17 May 2003
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Cider Digest #1040, 13 May 2003 (jack o feil)
Re: Priming with juice (Fred Johnson)
UV pasteurization (Daniel Knierim)
re: Priming with juice ("The Markers")
Apartment Cidermaking (Robert Sandefer)
Oak barrels (Jason MacArthur)
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1040, 13 May 2003
From: jack o feil <feilorchards@juno.com>
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 05:59:43 +0400
The article by Dick Dunn should elicit a lot of comment. For my
part, I agree that there is no one style American cider and never will
be, the same as there is no one style American beer even though some
styles are more popular than others, as Dick said this is a large and
diverse country and no one size fits all (my comment).For me, here in the
Inland Northwest nothing is more refreshing on a hot summer day than a
smooth light beer you can drink right down yet on a cold snowy night it
is very relaxing to sip on a stout dark ale. Extrapolating what I feel
applies to beer and ale to cider I suggest climate may have a lot to do
with what style is more acceptable than another. In Great Britain with
its cool and damp climate it appears that a still cider with a lot of
body and a little bitterness is just fine. In a warmer climate, as is the
case with beer something on the light and effervescent side would be more
acceptable and in this country, depending on the time of year, those are
conditions that can be found anywhere in the U.S. but the problem here is
that, for the vast majority, if you can't find them in the supermarket,
the different styles are not available and if you do buy what they offer
you'll probably never buy hard cider again.
While I compared cider to beer and ale, wouldn't cider be a
better fit with a cork stopper on the wine shelf than with a screw cap in
the beer case?
Jack Feil
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Priming with juice
From: Fred Johnson <FLJohnson@portbridge.com>
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 22:40:22 -0400
Dave asks of how much apple juice to add to prime his cider. He said
he had inconsistent results using cane sugar at 1/2 cup per 5 gallons.
Firstly, there is no reason that priming with 1/2 cup per 5 gallons
would give inconsistent results unless the cider had not completely
fermented out before priming and bottling. There is no reason that
providing sugar in another form (and perhaps in an even less refined
state than cane sugar) would provide more consistent results.
Cane sugar will provide approximately 0.046 gravity units per pound per
gallon. (I always add on the basis of weight rather than volume of the
sugar.) That is, one pound of cane sugar will increase the specific
gravity of one gallon of cider 0.046 units. Priming the cider with
juice can be calculated based upon the gravity of the juice. One can
calculate that a juice with a gravity of 1.050 has the equivalent of
0.050/0.046 pounds of cane sugar dissolved in each gallon of juice.
If Dave really wants the equivalent of 1/2 cup cane sugar per gallon of
cider, he can
1) weigh out 1/2 cup of sugar to determine the weight of a 1/2 cup
sugar,
2) measure the gravity of his priming apple juice, and
3) calculate the volume of apple juice it will take to provide the same
weight of cane sugar.
In the example above with a juice with a gravity of 1.050, one gallon
of juice will contain the equivalent of 1.087 pounds of sugar. If one
determines that a 1/2 cup of sugar weighs 4.5 oz., then you need
(4.5/16)/(0.050/0.046) gallons of priming juice per 5 gallons of cider.
I personally prefer 3-4 volumes of CO2 in sparking cider--champagne
fizzy--and prime with 42-56 g dextrose per gallon cider. When priming
with juice, it comes close to 0.5 gallons of a typical juice per 5
gallons of cider. Use good, strong bottles.
Fred L Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA
------------------------------
Subject: UV pasteurization
From: Daniel Knierim <dknierim@scn.org>
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 01:15:38 -0700 (PDT)
Hello cider enthusiasts,
In response to several posts about using pasteurized juice for those of
us who have little access to fresh juice:
Most pasteurization is done by heating the juice to a temperature that
kills the bacteria and yeast. Besides destroying the wild yeast, this
also destroys some of the flavor and aroma, and gives the juice a 'cooked'
taste.
I recommend looking for ultra-violet pasteurized juice. It is uncommon,
but at least one orchard in Eastern Washington sells it (Beck's, in Green
Bluff north of Spokane). UV pasteurization keeps the cider relatively
cool by using ultra-violet light (like that from blacklights) to
destroy the micro-organisms.
Of course it doesn't make dessert-variety juice any more like real cider
apple juice, and unfortunately the wild yeasts are still killed; but the
flavor is noticeably closer to fresh.
If you know any orchardists who sell sweet cider, suggest they try this
instead of heat pasteurization!
Good luck
- - Dan Knierim
=================================================================
Most people think racism is over because they don't see it on TV.
- -- bell hooks
------------------------------
Subject: re: Priming with juice
From: "The Markers" <markers@attbi.com>
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 12:20:34 -0400
I've only been making cider for 2 years, so I hope this is not the only
information you receive. I have not (intentionally) added juice to
prime the cider, but have always added pasteurized juice or unfermented,
unpasteurized cider at the end to add back some sweetness and apple
flavor. Occasionally, I have not added enough potassium sorbate to
completely squelch those little yeasts and the additional sugar has
restarted fermentation. The amount of juice added always ends up being
right around 20% of finished product (i.e. 5 quarts juice to 5 gallons
hard cider). If I were to guess, I would say you would not need that
much just to prime it. Just letting you know that you shouldn't need
more than 20%.
I get my cider from an orchardist near my family's farm in the
Shenandoah Valley. While his blend of apples makes about the best sweet
(unfermented) cider I've ever had, after fermentation there isn't much
apple flavor or sweetness remaining. I know I need to experiment with
adding juices of other varieties to get more residual flavor (and I know
that the loss of sweetness is pretty much inevitable without stopping
fermentation early), but for right now, the price of what I'm using is
hard to beat. Maybe this fall.
I'd like to tag another question onto this, if I may be so bold. When I
am tasting juice before fermentation, what should I be looking for to
know that there will still be flavor after the sugar is gone? Would
love not to have to add so much juice back after fermentation.
J. R. Marker
Virginia
------------------------------
Subject: Apartment Cidermaking
From: Robert Sandefer <melamor@vzavenue.net>
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 14:43:17 -0400
For the last several years I have been living in apartments. Not having the
land to grow apple trees for cider, I have experimented with commercial
juices and grocery-store fruit. The latter is obviously expensive even on
sale and the former has led to disappointing results. After ~30 gal of
experimentation, I have finally produced a passable New England-style cider
(3gal Trader Joe's juice, 1gal Trader Joe's Gravenstein juice, 18 cups
fresh-pressed Granny Smith juice, 2 lbs brown sugar, 1 oz oak chips, 8 oz
raisins, Lalvin K1V1116 yeast fermented for 5 months, bottled, aged >9
months). Still, I would like to produce decent (and cheap) cider.
Does anyone have any information/experience fermenting various commercial
apple juices (such as Treetop or Whitehouse)? With what yeasts, and in what
styles?
Or is it necessary to hunt out alternative sources of apples?
If so, I am currently living in Arlington, Virginia. I had hopes of
locating better apple sources in a land with actual rain (I used to live in
AZ). However, last summer I was very under-impressed by the local attempts
at farmers' markets. I wonder if anyone knows of good orchards in the
Northern Virgina/Maryland area. I would appreciate any info.
Thanks in advance.
Robert Sandefer
PS I did read Mike Tomlinson's interesting post. I have always wondered if
the White Labs Cider yeast was worth the extra expense. Now I know. Thanks
Mike. IMO the subject of how to produce decent cider from commercial
pasturized juice could be of great utility in advancing cider among people
living in apartments, urban centers, and arid regions.
------------------------------
Subject: Oak barrels
From: Jason MacArthur <rotread@localnet.com>
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 08:36:20 -0400
I live in the eastern U.S. (Vermont) and I am looking for a few good
oak barrels- preferably well used as I am not interested in the flavor
of the oak. Do any cidermakers have any suggestions for sourcing sound
barrels?
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End of Cider Digest #1041
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