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Cider Digest #1043
From: cider-request@talisman.com
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To: cider-list@talisman.com
Subject: Cider Digest #1043, 30 May 2003
Cider Digest #1043 30 May 2003
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Corks and Traditions - crossing threads ("McGonegal, Charles")
newby asks ("John Howard")
Hereford Cider comp (Dick Dunn)
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Subject: Corks and Traditions - crossing threads
From: "McGonegal, Charles" <Charles.McGonegal@uop.com>
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 11:54:30 -0500
I whole-heartedly agree with Derek Bisset that we will need to be willing to
pay more for cider if we want better cider to be available on a larger
scale.
Positioning along side wines seems like a good strategy to me - especially
for certain cider styles. That's the route that we are taking at
AEppelTreow. There are certainly trade-offs. People expect a certain pomp
to wine - especially sparkling ones and fancier bottles and closures (like
corks) require extra expense in consumables and equipment. Also, apple
wines don't seem to command the same price structure as grape wines (I've
spoken with several wineries with the same experience). Consumers seem to
automatically discount non-grape wines as automatically inferior. You and I
may know that the right apples and conditions can bring a wealth of
complexity and subtly to good ciders - but Joe Offdestreet seems to be
expecting alcoholic apple juice. Luckily most people seem to be very
pleased with our ciders once they taste them. (And we go for more aromatics
and only lightly on the tannins - at least until we get some bittersweets
into production :-)
And $7-14 a bottle is a lot more than even craft beer prices. We are a very
new business, so time will tell how well this approach works for us. But,
so far, so good.
I'm tying this note into the Anderson's comments on the semantics of
'cider', because I think it's directly relevant. We are located in
south-eastern WI, and in here (as elsewhere in the US) regular folks equate
'cider' with fresh apple juice. There is a dim (but still in living memory)
of 'apfel most' made and sold by the last wave of immigrants. Given that
the orchard we work with presses and sells sweet cider, we wanted a clear
distinction - and call our products apple wine (we make them at least 7%
alcohol - a federal requirement for wine). We also package and present as a
wine - part of the strategy noted above.
Since the temperance movement in the US absconded with the word 'cider', the
new meaning has permeated the public consciousness. It may be impossible to
recover it. But I frequently get asked what the difference between 'hard
cider' and apple wine is. I explain how 'cider' means any fermented apple
beverage, and how the meaning got distorted in the US to refer to the juice.
I always refer to our products and similar ones as 'cider' and always
qualify the juice as 'sweet cider' - rather than putting the 'hard'
qualifier on the passion of this fine digest. I never tire of climbing up
on that particular soapbox.
On a final note, the ATF wine labelling manual says that cider and perry may
be used (unqualified) as type names. Since perry is nearly unknown here, I
plan on using that term. But I've considered using 'cider wine' on labels.
I'm note sure if it would be allowed, or if would add to the confusion - but
it's something to ponder.
Charles McGonegal
AEppelTreow Winery
------------------------------
Subject: newby asks
From: "John Howard" <jhoward@beckerfrondorf.com>
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 13:32:28 -0400
I'm new to the list and new to cider making. I'm planning a trip to Adams
County PA, USA (source of 80% of PA's apple crop) in a few weeks and hope to
find someone out there making cider or growing cider apples. Any leads
would be appreciated.
John Howard
4310 Terrace Street
Philadelphia PA 19128
------------------------------
Subject: Hereford Cider comp
From: rcd@talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 23:27:40 -0600 (MDT)
In CD 1042, Julian Temperley <somcb@globalnet.co.uk> wrote:
> Congratulations---- almost a clean sweep for the USA at the Hereford
> Cidermuseum Cider Competetion, in the UK. First for the Boston Beer Co
> in the Dry , Medium and Sweet, and a near miss for the US in the
> bottle fermented class...
OUCH.
Julian, I hope you won't need to have your tongue surgically removed from
your cheek!
It's hard to say where more strangeness lies--the competitor or the
competition.
In the US, we know of Boston Beer--in the context of cider--as marketing
(but NOT making) industrial ciders under the "Hard Core" brand. I will tell
you that in Hard Core, the second ingredient (in the mandated in-order-of-
content labeling) is "natural flavoring" and let your imagination take it
from there.
It is hard to imagine what "they" might have made and entered as ciders,
since we don't even know who "they" are! I'm trying to visualize a bunch
of marketing folks in Boston creating a cider, and I'm not getting happy
visions. I'm imagining a bunch of marketing folks in Boston trying to
contract for the production of a cider, and the visions are a little better
but not much.
Surely the competition was not won by any of their regular commercial
ciders, so they must have made something up especially for the show.
>...We have a serious competition in Somerset at the
> Bath and West Show it would be nice to see you there next May...
We in the US hope your serious competition will be won by serious ciders.
For commercial cider makers, does the competition ask that the entries be
the regular products, or do the cider-makers make ciders just for that
competition?
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
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End of Cider Digest #1043
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