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Cider Digest #1053
From: cider-request@talisman.com
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To: cider-list@talisman.com
Subject: Cider Digest #1053, 4 July 2003
Cider Digest #1053 4 July 2003
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
calories (Brian Ross)
Re: Cider Digest #1052, 2 July 2003 (Peter G)
Re: Cider Digest #1052, 2 July 2003 ("Reynold Tomes")
Re: bottles ("T. J. Higgins")
Re: Squirrels ("John A. Ray")
Re: Pat Maloney's thinning question ("Ian A. Merwin")
Calories per Pint of Cider ("gmarion.dri.edu")
Re: Cider Digest #1052, 2 July 2003 (Claude Jolicoeur)
priming (Dick Dunn)
The Kind David Apple (Jason MacArthur)
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Subject: calories
From: Brian Ross <rossoon@imag.net>
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 19:31:00 -0700
"how does one determine the calories per pint?"
The error is that an "ounce" of liquid is not the same as an "ounce" of
weight, which is the conversion to grams. If you take a ball park
conversion of one pint = half a litre (and assume specific gravity of
near enough to one); you get 12 percent of 500 grams times 7 calories:
420 per bottle. Which is close to what my wife's cook book says.
Brian Ross
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1052, 2 July 2003
From: Peter G <peter.g@telus.net>
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 22:43:17 -0700
Sean ,
if you're not exactly in an urban setting ...
i recommend high-speed lead poisoning.
regards
peter g
>Subject: Squirrels
>From: "Sean Metrick" <lsmet@5-aces.net>
>Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 08:21:02 -0700>
>I am wondering what techniques people have found successful for mitigating
>squirrels on your apple trees. It seems that they always eat one bite
>rom every apple when they are half ripe and by harvest time there are no
>pples left. They seem to chew through netting with no problem. Do you
>just have to plant enough trees that they can't possibly eat all the fruit?
>
>Thanks for your ideas.
>
>Sean
>Lsmet@5-aces.net
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1052, 2 July 2003
From: "Reynold Tomes" <rtomes@burnsmcd.com>
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 08:45:23 -0500
Thinning, though labor intensive when done by hand, does significantly
increase the size of the remaining apples. Thinning can also help reduce
an apple tree's tendency toward biennial bearing by reducing overall
nutrient demands thus allowing the tree to generate adequate fruit buds
for the following season.
Regards,
Reynold
Subject: How thin is thin?
From: "Pat Maloney" <pmaloney@callatg.com>
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 08:51:01 -0700
Taciturn? Ouch. OK, OK - I got something! It's more of a pre-cider,
raw ingredient question. I have a couple decent size apple trees and
I'm wondering how aggressive I should be with thinning out my apples at
this stage of their growth. Right now they range from 2 to 3cm in
diameter and grow from 1 to 5 in a group. In the past I've thinned all
the groups down to 1 single apple but this year I am leaving 2. I was
told that the remaining apples will grow bigger without all the
competition but I wonder just how much of a difference it makes, if any.
I've only lived at this house 4 seasons and one of the trees only
produces fruit every other year, so I haven't had a lot of opportunities
to experiment. Any thoughts from my fellow taciturn digest denizens?
Pat Maloney
------------------------------
Subject: Re: bottles
From: "T. J. Higgins" <tjhiggin@ant.hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:24:15 -0500 (CDT)
Michael wrote:
>On another topic, my standard priming is the same as I use for beer: 3/4
>c. corn sugar/5 gal. cider. Gives me a good head, but not enough to blow
>bottles or foam it all out the top when I open it. Don't know if
>everyone else uses champagne bottles or not, but, for safety, I do. I've
>also found bottles from some of my local microbrews are strong enough.
>But my Dad worked for a glass company and I've been trained to be rather
>wary--or at least mindful--of what you put under pressure.
I've used 16-ounce returnable beer bottles for years with very few
problems. The glass in returnables is much thicker than disposables.
Returnables are getting harder to come by, but sometimes a bar or a
beer distributor will sell you a case or two for a reasonable price.
They don't work well for long-term storage, but plastic soft drink
bottles can handle VERY high pressures with no problem. They have
to be cleaned extremely well to rid them of the soft drink odor.
PET plastic is gas-permeable so you will get some oxidation in your
cider if it is left too long in a PET bottle.
T.J. Higgins
Huntsville, AL
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Squirrels
From: "John A. Ray" <jar18@lamar.colostate.edu>
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 08:26:18 -0600
I would imagine that an apple fed squirrel, slow roasted over mesquite
on the grill-in full view of its brethren, would slow your problem
down. If not, repeat until the problem disappears.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Pat Maloney's thinning question
From: "Ian A. Merwin" <im13@cornell.edu>
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:39:38 -0400
Re: How much to thin apple fruit?
The usual goal for thinning dessert apples is to reduce the fruit
load to one apple on every other spur. Since the seeds of this
year's apple produce hormones that suppress or abort development of
next year's flower buds in the contiguous spurs supporting this
year's apples, if half the spurs on a tree have no fruit in a given
year, then next year that half should flower and set fruit--so the
crop is evened out over successive years on each tree. This is
helpful not only for increasing fruit size (which probably is not so
important for cider apples), but also for maintaining a sustainable
crop load on your trees so that they will be more winter hardy and in
balance with respect to leaf area vs. crop load, and carbohydrate vs.
protein supply. The tendency to biennial bearing is influenced
greatly by the genetics of different apples. Some (for example
McIntosh or Michelin) often produce heavy crops (but small apples)
year after year with little thinning intervention. Others (for
example Northern Spy or Tremletts Bitter) tend to be biennial bearing
unless (or even if!) they are thinned agressively.
In my limited experience, many of the English and French cider apples
tend to be very biennial (on and off years of crop), and are
difficult to thin using the common approaches of carbaryl (Sevin)
and/or napthalene acetic acid (NAA) applications during the three
weeks after flower petal fall. The different traditional cider
varieties also bloom over a very long period (about 6 weeks in
upstate New York), which means you have to thin each variety at the
right time over a similar time frame to get the most benefit from
this practice. With just a few trees in a home orchard you can always
thin the fruit down to the one fruit per spur level by hand. To
avoid over-thinning, the best time to do this is after the natural
"June drop" (when you see all those half-inch apples on the ground
beneath your trees) during which most trees self adjust their fruit
load.
Most pomology textbooks have a detailed chapter on fruit thinning.
M.N. Westwood's book "Temperate-Zone Pomology" would be a good place
to start if you want to read about this).
There is also a good extension booklet on the topic by Phil
Schwallier "Apple Thinning Guide" that should be available from the
Great Lakes Publishing Co., in Sparta Michigan (telephone
616-887-9008).
Re: Squirrels?
Two large snap-type rat traps screwed loosely onto opposite sides of
the trunk of your fruit trees about five feet above ground (high
enough so toddlers can't reach them), and baited with peanut butter
will discourage the squirrels somewhat.
- --
*************************
Ian Merwin (im13@cornell.edu)
Associate Professor of Horticulture
118 Plant Science Bldg.
Dept. of Horticulture
Cornell University, Ithaca, NY, 14853
Tel. 607-255-1777
URL. http://www.hort.cornell.edu/department/faculty/merwin/index.htm
------------------------------
Subject: Calories per Pint of Cider
From: "gmarion.dri.edu" <gmarion@dri.edu>
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 08:55:31 -0700
Subject: calories per pint of cider
From: "tugger" <tugger@netreach.net>
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 13:11:47 -0400
how does one determine the calories per pint? I usually make
6 galons with 2-4 lbs cane sugar and a tube of white labs
cider yeast and it produces about a 10-12% alcohol beverage.
I am told that there are 7 calories per gram of alcohol and
a web search indicates that there 1 oz ='s 28.35 grams.
If I do the multiplication I get 16 x 28.35 x 7 ='s 3175
calories per pint. That seems a bit excessive but maybe
that why I put on weight drinking my cider. Is my math
correct or have I missed somethin? thanks
Hi Tugger: Your calculation estimates the calories in 1 pint of pure
alcohol. You need to multiple your calories (3175) by 0.10 to 0.12 to
estimate the calories in 10 to 12 % alcohol cider (318 to 381 calories).
Boy, I bet that's a relief! Regards, Giles.
- --
Dr. Giles M. Marion
Earth and Ecosystem Sciences
Desert Research Institute 775-673-7349 (phone)
2215 Raggio Parkway 775-673-7485 (fax)
Reno, NV 89512 gmarion@dri.edu
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1052, 2 July 2003
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoli@gmc.ulaval.ca>
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 21:20:03 -0400
There were some notes I would like to comment from the last CD...
>Subject: How thin is thin?
>From: "Pat Maloney" <pmaloney@callatg.com>
About thinning apples...
For making cider, I think there is no point growing big apples, as those
contain more water and less goodies in proportion. A nice crop of small
apples usually give me a juice with a lot more sugars, acids and aromas,
eventually leading to a better quality cider. So I would suggest not to
thin too much - just enough to prevent alternance.
>Subject: Re: boiling juice; priming
>From: Michael Arighi <calzinman@earthlink.net>
>On another topic, my standard priming is the same as I use for beer: 3/4
>c. corn sugar/5 gal. cider. Gives me a good head, but not enough to blow
>bottles or foam it all out the top when I open it. Don't know if
>everyone else uses champagne bottles or not, but, for safety, I do.
About priming...
I also use corn sugar (or Dextrose). When you say 3/4 c. I guess you mean 8
oz. cups, which comes approximately to the same dosage I use for beer:
between 130 and 190 ml of dextrose for a 20 litre batch.
For cider, my priming dosage will depend on the bottles I use. With beer
bottles, I use beer dosage. With Champagne bottles, I use double dosage,
i.e. between 260 and 380 ml of dextrose per 20 litre batch. This gives,
grosso modo, 10 g/l of dextrose, or 8 g/l of pure sugar, and will raise the
density by 0,004 (e.g. from 1,000 to 1,004). This normally gives a nice
foam when the cider is served, but the foam doesn't last as long as real
Champagne.
>Subject: juice extractor advice
>From: "Diane Gagnon" <gagnond@endirect.qc.ca>
>Being a " home " producer, (25-50 litres/year) I processed the apples in
>a small commercial juicer ( centrifugal) with fairly good results ,but
>wounder if using a presser would increase quality.
Bonjour Denis et/ou Diane,
Nice to hear from others in Quebec from this list.
I have made tests with a centrifugal juice extractor and found the juice to
be of lesser quality than pressed juice. A 20 kg capacity screw press with
shredder really is a worthy investment, but a bit expensive (over 500
Cdn$). For juicing small quantities, I made myself a small press, about 1
kg capacity, for about 30$ with material I bought at Canadian Tyre - I
think it is much better than a centrifugal extractor. Contact me off list
if you want more details.
>Subject: Squirrels
>From: "Sean Metrick" <lsmet@5-aces.net>
About squirrels...
Here, they seem better organized... they work in teams: one squirrel is in
the tree and drops apples to the ground while others take the apples and go
and hide them. When I saw this for the first time, I thought it was quite
neat team work...
>Subject: Cider in Normandy
>From: "James W Luedtke" <james.luedtke@cgi.com>
>Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 07:31:15 -0500
>I just returned from a 2 week vacation in France, including 3 days in
>Normandy.
Lucky you... I am looking forward to do the same.
Claude Jolicoeur, Quebec.
cjoli@gmc.ulaval.ca
------------------------------
Subject: priming
From: rcd@talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 22:31:45 -0600 (MDT)
On a tangent from the thread about priming with juice a while back: My
standard priming addition in recent years is...absolutely nothing.
Quite seriously, all other things being equal (which, of course, they
never are), I find a still cider to be more enjoyable. Give it a try
if you haven't made one.
One good thing about a still cider is that the carbonation doesn't get in
the way of the character of the cider.
One bad thing about a still cider is that the carbonation doesn't get in
the way of the faults of the cider! That is, it's less forgiving if you
don't have good juice or if you've got problems in your technique...car-
bonation can mask some of the inappropriate bitterness from a yeast, make
up for a lack of body, or make slight acetification less objectionable.
My personal preference for still ciders comes partly from the first *good*
ciders I ever had (none of which were carbonated at all). But I admit it
also comes partly from an aversion to the alco-pop industrial ciders which
are so heavily carbonated. It's gotten to where Diane isn't surprised to
see me pouring a new-found cider from a height into the glass and then
stirring it vigorously: I'm just trying to find out what it *really*
tastes like, underneath the bubbles.
Mind you, I don't reject the idea of sparkling ciders. But that's not my
preference. And I DO think that one point which can set serious ciders
apart is for at least some of them to be still, and perhaps for most of
the rest to be only slightly sparkling.
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: The Kind David Apple
From: Jason MacArthur <rotread@localnet.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 06:47:12 -0400
I am looking for thoughts on the King David as a hard cider apple, and
on whether or not it is hardy to Zone 4. Anyone ever pressed it up?
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1053
*************************
