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Cider Digest #1024
From: cider-request@talisman.com
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To: cider-list@talisman.com
Subject: Cider Digest #1024, 25 February 2003
Cider Digest #1024 25 February 2003
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
more sources for trees (Cider Digest)
Incubating apple leaves (Andrew Lea)
Kieve in Ireland! (Andrew Lea)
Re: Cider Competition ("David Houseman")
Chill Requirements Kingston Black/Stoke Red (Tim Bray)
Chill Requirements ("Richard & Susan Anderson")
cheap pruning and malolactic fermentation ("Jason MacArthur")
Cider Competition ("Drew Zimmerman")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: more sources for trees
From: cider@talisman.com (Cider Digest)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 19:50:34 -0700 (MST)
There are a couple more sources for trees of cider-variety apples added
recently at
http://www.talisman.com/cider/sources
At this point I don't have any more "hot leads", so I don't expect to be
adding much more for the coming northern-hemisphere spring planting season.
- ---
Cider Digest cider-request@talisman.com
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor Boulder County, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Incubating apple leaves
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 11:18:10 +0000
Tim Steury wrote:
> I do have a question. In his section on the composition of the apple,
> Warcollier contemplates an extract made by macerating apple leaves in a
> sugar yeast solution. He suggests that the yeast secretes an enzyme that
> decomposes the glucoside in the leaves, producing an aromatic compound and
> a fermentable sugar that in turn gives a rich apple flavor to cider.
> Has anyone tried this?
If I may add a personal note... around 25 years ago, when E. Annie
Proulx was researching her book on cider, she visited me and my
colleagues at Long Ashton for a day. This was a topic she had also
picked up on from Warcollier's book and she wanted to know what we
thought of it. As scientists, we advised caution! Apple leaves are not
a normal dietary item and, although not known to be specifically toxic,
we felt this was inadvisable in view of the presence of high levels of
phloridzin in the leaves (which can cause diabetic symptoms in rats).
And in the UK at least, this would be illegal anyway. So she left it out
of the book!
However, it raises an interesting wider topic about the role of
non-volatile glucosides as flavour precursors in apples (and grapes).
It is now known that many flavour components are 'locked up' in the
fruit as glycosides and only released by the action of specific beta
glucosidases (which even many yeasts do not possess). The most
important commercial example is 'flowery' terpenes in white wines. These
can be liberated by the application of special enzymes during
winemaking (e.g. http://www.vinquiry.com/pdf/lallzyme_beta.pdf) and I
understand their use is now standard practice in many wineries to
liberate these aroma components and hence to make a white wine more
floral in aroma than it would otherwise be.
In apple fruits, we know that the 'rose-like' odour of 2-phenyl ethanol
is also glycosidically bound, as is 1,3 octanediol which is a key
flavour precursor in both ciders and perries. So this is a very
interesting area and one worthy of some experiment in my view. I would
advise this 'added enzyme' route, though,in preference to the addition
of apple leaves which still troubles me in terms of both safety and
legality! My point is that the aroma precursors are probably still
present in the juice and just need the right enzyme to come along and
liberate them!
Andrew Lea
- ----------------------------------
Visit the Wittenham Hill Cider Page at
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Kieve in Ireland!
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:38:41 +0000
I just went around the Guinness visitor centre in the old brewery in the
centre of Dublin and the old mash tank they have there (complete with
paddles) is called a 'kieve'.
They claim this is a uniquely Irish word! Blarney, to be sure! The word
is old English 'cyf', and according to the Oxford English Dictionary its
primary meaning is a tub or a vat, especially in brewing, cider making
or mineral working. It has had wide usage throughout the
English-speaking world.
The OED does not seem to recognise its use by cidermakers as a _verb_.
Shame on them! I wonder how we remedy this??
Andrew Lea
- ----------------------------------
Visit the Wittenham Hill Cider Page at
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Competition
From: "David Houseman" <housemanfam@earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 09:34:29 -0500
Lee asks about Cider competitions. Luckily one of the largest in the
country is coming up soon. The AHA's National Homebrew Competition
separates cider entries out and hosts those as a cider-only competition.
Check out their web site at http://www.beertown.org/events/nhc/index.html
for details. Also, many, but not all, of the homebrew competitions around
the country do support the mead and cider categories with judgings in these.
Many times in the smaller competitions the ciders and meads will be in the
same ribbon category because the number of entries in these categories is
small. In some locations judges knowledgeable in ciders are very difficult
to find but in other competitions there are very knowledgeable cider judges.
In the first BUZZ OFF Homebrew Competition that I organized, the Best of
Show was in fact a cider which was given a 50 (highest possible score)
during the judging. Very unusual actually. But we must have known
something since this cider then went on to win the AHA's national cider
competition and the makers were named cider makers of the year. Check out
the BUZZ OFF HB competition at http://hbd.org/buzz/ as we post the details
later in the Spring. For other competitions check out
http://www.mv.com/ipusers/slack/bjcp/compsch.html and
http://www.beertown.org/homebrewing/events.html.
David Houseman
------------------------------
Subject: Chill Requirements Kingston Black/Stoke Red
From: Tim Bray <tbray@mcn.org>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 10:06:05 -0800
Stoke red is definitely a high-chill variety; I had to dig mine up and send
them to Dick because they wouldn't wake up here in spring. (I am in a very
low-chill climate, USDA zone 9.) Same for Harry Masters Jersey and
Bedan. Others that seem to be marginal here are Binet Rouge, Noel des
Champs, and Sweet Coppin.
Kingston Black is an odd one. Here in California, it seems to be both
low-chill and early-ripening. Mine ripened about the first of October last
year, and Terry Harrison confirmed that his were ripe by then as
well. This is at odds with the published information. I haven't noticed
any symptoms of chill deficiency in my KBs, although some of them grow
rather oddly.
Cheers,
Tim
Albion, CA
------------------------------
Subject: Chill Requirements
From: "Richard & Susan Anderson" <baylonanderson@rockisland.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:46:08 -0800
We grow Kingston Blacks in USDA Zone 8 with no problems. Our typical winter
mean is about 40 F and seldom see any significant freezing weather. Its just
cool between November and April.
------------------------------
Subject: cheap pruning and malolactic fermentation
From: "Jason MacArthur" <jasonmacarthur@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 07:09:02 -0500
Regarding pruning tools and costs, I recently purchased a Wheeler pruning
saw from OESCO in Conway, MA, and have found it to be a remarkably versatile
tool. The saw comfortably cuts branches up to 3" in diameter and down to
1/2". At approx. $20 it makes pruning affordable, and it should last for
many years. Depending on the condition of your tree, it may be all you
need.
My ciders are good this year- high alcohol with a great deal of
character, but also very high acidity. Although I don't dislike this, I
would like to encourage them to undergo a malolactic fermentation. Besides
leaving them on their lees, is their any way I can do this on a home cider
making scale?
Thank you Talisman for doing so much to keep cider makers talking,
Jason MacArthur jasonmacarthur@hotmail.com
Marlboro, Vt
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Competition
From: "Drew Zimmerman" <drewzimmer@attbi.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:42:45 -0800
In regards to Lee Elliott's question on cider competitions, the
Northwest Cider Society is planning its first international competition
in Seattle for the Fall of 2003. This will be for commercial producers
and hopefully for hobbyists as well. Information will be posted as it
becomes available. Hang on to a few bottles of your dynamite, it will
be interesting to see how its explosive qualities measure up.
Drew Zimmerman
Competition Committee
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1024
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