Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Cider Digest #1030
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Errors-To: cider-errors@talisman.com
Reply-To: cider@talisman.com
To: cider-list@talisman.com
Subject: Cider Digest #1030, 21 March 2003
Cider Digest #1030 21 March 2003
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
About cider dinner (Sketchpub@aol.com)
Questions for Digest from an amateur. ("H. Rakovsky")
RE: Closures - Barstop ("Sean Metrick")
American cider cultivars ("Victor Fluke")
RE: Barstop Closures ("Richard & Susan Anderson")
Fermenters? ("Mark Ellis - Artisansrus.com")
Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com.
Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests.
When subscribing, please include your name and a good address in the
message body unless you're sure your mailer generates them.
Archives of the Digest are available at www.talisman.com/cider
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: About cider dinner
From: Sketchpub@aol.com
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 23:45:00 EST
Dear cider enthusiasts,
First off, please copy this to anyone interested in cider, or to a
media person in your area.
Just a quick report on the cider dinner last Wednesday billed as a
celebration of a new industry:
Thirty-seven cider enthusiasts gathered at Kaspar's Restaurant last
Wednesday, March 12, for a four-course cider dinner featuring NW produced
commercial ciders. The event was organized by the Northwest Cider Society.
In attendance were some notable people: Roger Downey, Senior Editor
from the Seattle Weekly, and the Puget Sound Slow Food Convivium; Jon Rowley,
oyster guru, fresh fish and fruit advocate; Dr. Bob Norton, former
Superintendent of WSU-Mt. Vernon; Paul Thomas, former owner Paul Thomas Wines
and active in the apple industry; Gary Moulton, currently in charge of small
fruits at WSU-Mt. Vernon.
Other diners included officers of the NW Cider Society and both
members and guests of the Society.
The evening began with a pre-dinner tasting of commercial ciders and
amateur ciders, including ciders from New Enland and from Europe. There were
probably twenty different ciders to sample. Jon Rowley commented that he
thought there was a story to be told as he could feel the vibrant excitement
of tasters in the room.
The meal was prepared by Kaspar Donier and included four courses, in
which commercial ciders were served with the different courses.
1) The first course may have been the best. It was Bosc pear with
Oregon Blue cheese and Yukon Gold potato gnocchi. This was a heavenly and
creamy dish that went well with the more delicate ciders served alongside:
Roger's Semi-Dry, The Traditional Company, Oregon
French-style Sparkling Cider, Ford Farms Cyderworks, Oregon
Both of these ciders were lighter, and drier. The Ford cider was crisp
and clean while the Roger's Semi-dry was a tad sweeter and very refreshing.
2) The second course was poached true cod with cider paprika,
sauerkraut and dill bread noodles. Served alongside were:
1997 Cox's Orange Pippin, Irvine's Vintage Cider, Washington
Normandy Style, Merridale Cider Works, British Columbia
These ciders were in great contrast. The Irvine's was delicate and
non-sparkling with a true taste of the Cox's Orange Pippin.
The Normandy stryled cider by Merridale was a big, flavorful cider wit
h nearly 12% alcohol.
3) Third course was a roast pork loin with sweet and sour rhubarb
sauce. Served alongside were two excellent ciders of similar weight but with
different flavors.
Kingston Black Cider, White Oak Black, Oregon
Vintage Cider, Westcott Bay Orchards, Washington
Both of these ciders matched up perfectly with the pork loin. The
Kingston Black was particularly notable for its full varietal flavor. The
Westcott Bay cider drank beautifully with full baked apple flavors.
4) The fourth course was heavenly. It was Golden Delicious apple baked
with frangipone wrapped in phyllow with caramel ice cream. This was one of
the best desserts I have ever had. The hot baked apple contrasted with the
rich, dense caramel ice cream framed by the phyllow crust....unbelievable.
Served alongside:
White Oak Cider, Pommeau, Oregon
The Pommeau was a real treat and magically matched up to this hearty
dessert. Pommeau is a blend of fresh cider juice with cider brandy with about
17% alcohol and reminds me of a lighter cream sherry hinting at apples.
During the meal, various people spoke on different cider issues
including plans to add cider trees to the display garden at WSU-Mt Vernon
research station, new varieties to plant in the stations regular orchards,
and plans for a cider competition in November of this year. Also discussed
were upcoming events including visits to Lopez Island in the spring, and
Sauvie Island in the summer.
The Northwest Cider Society is alive and well.
Ron Irvine
NWCS, President
------------------------------
Subject: Questions for Digest from an amateur.
From: "H. Rakovsky" <rakovsky@excite.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 02:26:41 -0500 (EST)
Dear Digest members,
I enjoy reading your digest and making apple cider myself. I learned
about it from my grandmotehr, who (or rather her parents) made it on
her farm during Prohibition. But I have some questions about making it
and other things to think about (this is from an amateur!)
Pretty much I have a gallon jug and filled the bottom with honey and
sugar. Then I filled it up with unpasteurized "apple cider" from the
local orchard. I didn't know to put water in my airlock, or even to what
level. So it stayed there for 3 months and then I filled the airlock with
water for another couple months. Then I racked the lees through a tube
into two 1/2 gallon bottles, leaving a yeast segiment in the bottom. I
was surprised that it had a better quality taste than the "woodchuck"
cider I stole at a party! Plus, read the woodchuck instructions- it
says apple juice from concentrate, fermented apple juice and sugar base,
brown coloring, preservatives, chemicals, yuck! My own cider had about
the same alcohol level (how to raise it?) and is a better quality product!
1) Was Johnny Appleseed "just" into apples like the Disney cartoon
legend says, or was it really cider? Why wouldn't he be famous then for
potatoes or cherries?
2) Are there any places I can search for evidence of cider and wine's
healthy properties? I saw a cnn site and heard Danish scientists did
some research proving this, but not sure specifically what the titles
are of the research. My relatives are a little worried about the "stuff
sitting in the basement" from time to time. Heheh. Back when I was in
highschool, we saw a film about animals in the African Savannah eating
overripe fruit. The monkeys wouldn't complete their jump to the next
tree and the elephants would fall over. It was funny.
3) What do you think are some reasons for Cider's decline in 1800's and
recent comeback? It is unfortunate that most people are only getting
it in nasty draft form. Would you agree that its decline, and beer's
corresponding replacement for it, was from the prohibition movement? what
factors would cause this trend?
4) I have made it with just the natural wild yeasts in the unpasteurized
apple juice. What are the advantages and disadvantages of this? and in
regards to champagne/wine yeast? Perhaps mine has a more natural flavor,
but it might be risky or not have as high an alcohol yield? I have seen
alot of information on the different special cider apples, but I just
buy the common "apple cider" from the orchards. Is this bad?
5) Now in the spring, I might have to buy frozen unpasteurized "apple
cider" from the orchard. Perhaps the wild yeast will be killed?
6) Do you have any favorite recipes for making the "mulled" or spice
cider? This is like cinammon or nutmeg for the holidays I believe.
7) Should I add raisins? When should I add the metabisulfide normally?
I do not want to kill the wild yeast for my production! I tried it after
my first racking and one bottle cleared and the other did not. Actually,
I liked the hazy look better. It seemed more natural.
8) Do you have any advice for how to clean the different instruments?
They get cider waste clogged in them, such as the airlock, stopper, tubing,
etc.
9) What is a carboy and when and where should I fill the water to in my
airlock?
10) How about using a syphon or a filter to clear out the lees during
the racking or at some other times? Perhaps use cheesecloth? I read
that people get hangovers with wine and beer from impurities and that is
why the same "sensitive" people won't from vodka. I don't get hangovers
(headaches etc.), however, I want to make a finer cider and that is why
I ask how to filter out the impurities.
11) What is the malic acid and how much is there supposed to be? I don't
"regulate" my cider in the technical ways I have seen, and of course
I am worried that it could "go bad," or even be a health risk. Do you
have any advice on how to "add" acidity? Use lemons perhaps?
12) What is a carboy?
13) What is the purpose of the secondary fermenter and is it ok for it
to sit on its lees for a long time? I say this because it sat on its
lees for 5 months before the first racking, and it has been sitting on
the finer lees after racking in the bottle since the Fall.
14) What is applejack? Can it be made by letting cider sit out over a
very cold winter and then the water separates by turning into ice,
leaving the remaining liquid very concentrated liquor? This is what I
have heard. Or is applejack only made by being distilled?
15)Perhaps you would be interested in learning that there are two
Eastern European drinks that are commonly homemade: Kvass and Brazhka.
The second, I believe, is made from jam.
Please write back
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Closures - Barstop
From: "Sean Metrick" <lsmet@5-aces.net>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 09:49:45 -0800
Mark:
I would look into the new screw top closures that many wine makers are
starting to use. They seal very well and are inexpensive. They kind'a
lack the romance of a cork though. The wine spectator has a bunch about
it (http://www.winespectator.com/Wine/Daily/News/0,1145,1799,00.html).
This is kind of interesting as well
(http://www.willakenzie.com/news/pdf/screwcaps/WhyScrewCaps.pdf). The one
thing I would add about the barstop closures is that just the other night
as I was opening a bottle of scotch the plastic part twisted off and
left the rest of the cork in the neck (good thing a corkscrew was handy).
------------------------------
Subject: American cider cultivars
From: "Victor Fluke" <vwf80@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 12:21:37 -0500
Hello everyone,
My name is Victor, and while I been carefully reading the last few cider
digests, this is the first submission by me. I do not currently have an
orchard, but I look forward to beginning one soon. That is the reason for
this letter.
I would like to focus my orchard around American varieties particularly
those that are native to Pennsylvania. While doing some research I have
found only references to apples which are either used for baking and eating,
or apples which are "lost". Does anyone know any good sources for cultivars
which came from Pennsylvania and were used for mainly for cider. It doesn't
bother me if I have to do my own grafting.
I also have a great interest in testing seedlings which I have found in the
fencerows and farms locally. If anyone else has been experimenting with
seedlings I would be interested in hearing about it. Thank you.
Victor Fluke
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Barstop Closures
From: "Richard & Susan Anderson" <baylonanderson@rockisland.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 14:11:28 -0800
We have been giving a lot of thought to packaging options but have not
looked at barstops. I see that many calvados and brandies are bottled with
them and from an ease of use point of view they are outstanding, however I
am not convinced that they would adequately protect a cider product. The
winemaking industry has been talking about using screw caps to eliminate
cork taints and apparent sulfite loss in some wines but for the most part
are unwilling to break with tradition. In a recent article on this subject,
one small winemaker was quoted as saying the humble crown cap was his
choice, however it was not clear that he used them. Another very large
producer was quoted a saying a significant number consumers would buy wine
if they did not have the hassle of uncorking. Given the glut of table wine,
go figure. A number of small cider producers in the UK use a bottle with a
MCA2 cap. This cap the advantage of a security band and can be applied
manually. I have been unable to locate a suitable bottle in the US for this
style of cap. Packaging cider is a challenge, many feel the amber crown cap
bottle is too beer like, I think the champagne bottle is over kill, and with
a crown cap is a contradiction in presentation.
In parting I paraphrase the small wine maker quoted earlier "the mystery and
romance of cider should be in the glass, not in the bottle"
------------------------------
Subject: Fermenters?
From: "Mark Ellis - Artisansrus.com" <mark@artisansrus.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 15:00:00 +1100
G'day All,
For our American list members I have seen a interesting poly tank that may
be very nifty for those of you who are commercial of make large batches
http://www.remcon.com/tanks.htm
Catcha
Mark E. in OZ
<<<<<<<< http://www.Artisansrus.com >>>>>>
Ancient Fermentable Arts Discussion Groups
inc. cheese, wine, beer, cider, mead and more....
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1030
*************************
