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Cider Digest #1073
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Subject: Cider Digest #1073, 9 September 2003
Cider Digest #1073 9 September 2003
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Etymology Question: Perry ("McGonegal, Charles")
Glucosidase activity and Sauterne yeasts ("McGonegal, Charles")
freezing part of the apples before milling and pressing ("Ira Edwards")
2003 North American Cider Competition ("Drew Zimmerman")
wood finishes and glues (Dick Dunn)
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Subject: Etymology Question: Perry
From: "McGonegal, Charles" <Charles.McGonegal@uop.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 10:37:31 -0500
Is there anyone on the CD with access to the OED?
I'm wondering what the source of the word 'perry' is. I thought it was
pretty direct from Anglo-Saxon, but I've seen another attribution recently.
Charles
AEppelTreow Winery
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Subject: Glucosidase activity and Sauterne yeasts
From: "McGonegal, Charles" <Charles.McGonegal@uop.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 10:57:27 -0500
In CD 1072 John Ray asks: Has anyone experience with Lallzyme Beta
(glucosidase/pectinase complex) that was mentioned awhile ago?
John, I haven't tried the Beta, but I have tried AR2000, which is supposed
to have similar activity. I added it to a Delicious/Cortland/Haralson blend
to no great impact. It increased the floral quality of the bouquet
slightly, but also added a slight bitterness. I've noticed that kind of
relationship (floar licked with bitter) before in other ciders.
I think you might have to try it on a variety by variety basis, and see
which it helped. At a guess, I bet it would improve un-sweated apples more
than ones left to ripen more.
On a related note, I've seen some questions about Sauterne yeasts recently.
Sauterne yeasts are also used for this same glucosidase activity. BUT, be
careful - they seem to be picky about nitrogen. I tried the Lalvin R2, and
ended up barely able to save the resulting, stinking mess. (Now it's trying
to referment in the bottle :-)
I've also seen this comment in a mead book by Ken Schraam - R2, at least,
needs plenty of nitrogen - but cidermaking tends to be a low nitrogen
endeavor.
Charles McGonegal
AEppelTreow Winery
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Subject: freezing part of the apples before milling and pressing
From: "Ira Edwards" <ira_j_e@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 17:21:13 +0000
Hi all,
I know that last month we discussed ice ciders and such but i have a
slightly different question. I had the opportunity to pick some mystery
apples at this elderly gentleman's home the other day. They are yellow,
about 2.5" long 1.5-2" wide and kind of egg shaped. they taste very similar
to yellow transparent apples, but are smaller and are ripe much earlier.
the guy said that his grandmother planted the tree here in the early 1920's.
my problem is that after I picked them(~120 pounds), they are startting to
turn brown and mealy after 2 days, just like a yellow transparent would. I
am planning to go to Soldotna, Alaska in about 2 weeks, after I pick tthe
Transparent apples around town. there is a guy down there who has a cider
mill and press and is the only guy in Alaska who seems to have one. these
apples will make about 10% of my pressing (I have plenty of dessert,
bittersharp, bittersweets and crabapples so these are just for volume).
would it be horrible to freeze these apples until I process them? with this
small of a fraction of the pressing, would it gunk everything up that much?
am I better to just try and make applesauce out of thes apples?
thanks
- -Ira Edwards
Anchorage, Alaska
------------------------------
Subject: 2003 North American Cider Competition
From: "Drew Zimmerman" <drewzimmer@comcast.net>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 12:06:31 -0700
The Northwest Cider Society is announcing its 2003 North American Cider
Competition. We have sent out information packages and entry forms to
around 40 commercial cider makers in the U. S. and Canada. There will
be a private judging the morning and afternoon of Saturday, November
8th, followed by an awards banquet in Seattle that evening. We will be
awarding medals and certificates to the best ciders in each class. As
far as I know, this will be the first event of its kind on this side of
the pond since the mid to late 1800's when cider was considered the
"National Drink".
This competition is only for hard cider, no wines, beers, or meads.
There are classes for dry, medium and sweet in both Traditional and
Special categories, as well as Flavored, New England and Perry.
We have assembled what we feel is a commendable panel of judges with
diverse backgrounds from wide-ranging locations; a leading cider
production expert from Worcestershire, England, an eminent Colorado
custodian of a popular cider e-mail publication, and a local Seattle
luminary in regional food and beverage promotion.
We are hoping that this opportunity will not only bring a greater cider
awareness to the Pacific Northwest, but also give producers a little
fuel for their marketing efforts.
If you are a cider producer and haven't received an info/entry package,
contact me off list and I'll get you one. We'd like to have entries in
by the end of the month and ciders received before the end of October.
Cheers,
Drew Zimmerman
NWCS Competition Committee
drewzimmer@comcast.net
206 241 7805
------------------------------
Subject: wood finishes and glues
From: rcd@talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 16:21:24 -0600 (MDT)
In CD 1071, Mark Ohrstrom wrote:
> One last question: the grinder cylinder is laminated wood. Does anyone
> use an epoxy coating in their mill? I have some WEST System epoxy
> lying about ...
This brings to mind a more general set of questions: what glues and
finishes are OK on wooden press parts?
I'm hoping some of the folks who read the CD have "day jobs" in other
businesses where they've got some experience with these questions.
I have heard it said that essentially all conventional finishes (varnish,
lacquer, oils, waxes) are food-safe once they've dried and hardened
adequately. (Boiled linseed oil is a notable exception: It is known NOT to
be food-safe.) Rather, the difference between typical finishes and the
food-safe "toy" or "salad bowl" finishes is not that the latter are somehow
different or safer, but that they have been tested and certified safe--a
process which could be expensive and a headache for the manufacturer.
Moreover, once certified, the formula of the varnish presumably couldn't
be changed without re-certification.
Now WAIT before you jump on that...note that I said it's what I've heard!
It certainly seems plausible, but I don't know how much truth there really
is to it!
One tangle comes to mind about finishes: "Food safe" might need to be
interpreted carefully in the context of use on a press where there is
extended contact with rather low pH liquid. Comment?
I've seen a suggestion to use mineral oil...which would certainly be food-
safe, but it doesn't "dry" and it seems it could be messy.
I've seen a suggestion to use vegetable oil...which is a **terrible** idea
because the oil will turn rancid before long and you'll never get that out
of the wood.
I've not seen any specific notes about epoxy, although I know there are
epoxies used in food-contact situations. My concern (relative to Mark's
specific question) would be that epoxies are generally quite hard and go
on thick, so you might want to think about chipping/flaking of the finish
into the cider. (How does epoxy--or any finish material, for that matter--
behave when soaked for an extended period at pH of 3.5 or so, followed by
long soaking in 7% ethanol?!?)
Similar questions arise about glues, and again the matter of "food safety"
arises: Is it a matter of actual safety or the certification process?
The only waterproof wood glue that's actually certified for food contact
that I know of is Titebond II, which is a PVA. Would a PVC glue like
Gorilla Glue be OK? Barring anything explicitly toxic in the formulation,
I'd think glue couldn't be much of a problem, since the exposed surface of
any glue joints present a trivially small surface area compared to finished
wood surfaces.
Sigh...I wish I had a tenth as many answers as questions!
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
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End of Cider Digest #1073
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