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Cider Digest #1034
From: cider-request@talisman.com
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To: cider-list@talisman.com
Subject: Cider Digest #1034, 9 April 2003
Cider Digest #1034 9 April 2003
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
10th Annual BUZZ Off Home Brew Competition ("David Houseman")
how to dry/preserve yeast strain ("Rand Dawson")
e coli (Derek Bisset)
old trees/young trees (jack o feil)
Re: Sheep, potassium,and general nutrition (Terence L Bradshaw)
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Subject: 10th Annual BUZZ Off Home Brew Competition
From: "David Houseman" <housemanfam@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:24:26 -0500
2nd Notice:
Brewers Unlimited Zany Zymurgists (BUZZ) is proud to announce that the 2003
BUZZ Off home brew competition will be held on Saturday, June 7th at Iron
Hill Brewery & Restaurant in West Chester, PA. For another year we will be
a qualifying event for the prestigious Masters Championship of Amateur
Brewing (MCAB) as well as the Delaware Valley Homebrewer of the Year. All
BJCP recognized styles including meads and ciders are eligible for entry.
For complete details and forms, please visit the BUZZ web site at
http://hbd.org/buzz. We will distribute copies of the forms and a flyer to
your stores in the near future.
BJCP Judges and stewards will be needed. If you are interested please
contact me or another committee member (contact information can be found on
the web site). All judges must be BJCP certified.
Thank you and cheers!
Christopher Clair
buzz@netreach.net
http://hbd.org/buzz
"The mouth of a perfectly happy man is filled with beer."
- - Ancient Egyptian Wisdom, 2200 B.C.
------------------------------
Subject: how to dry/preserve yeast strain
From: "Rand Dawson" <rdawson@oregonfast.net>
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 09:03:14 -0800
Greetings: Would like feedback on idea of drying/preserving the
resultant yeast "broth" at bottom of 1st 5-gal. jug of very good cider.
I did this process without any additives/boiling of any kind and find
result is worth trying to repeat.
Would attempting to preserve the yeast-broth make sense, i.e., and then
using it again next season? If so...how does one intelligently preserve
it?
Some noncider sources make a "dough" a la' sourdough, let it activate,
then dry, blender it up, and freeze until ready to use. I notice many
"liquid" yeast sources....but find nothing regarding preparation.
The information on this site has been helpful to getting to this stage.
Regards, rand dawson rdawson@oregonfast.net
------------------------------
Subject: e coli
From: Derek Bisset <derek_bisset@shaw.ca>
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 09:27:22 -0800
Andrew brought back a reference to sheep and e coli that I had
missed previously .
When I offer cider , the subject of e coli comes up occasionally
because people are aware of the problems it has caused in apple juice . I
believe the problems are real in fresh apple juice and there are recent
suggestions that apples have the problem and other juice fruit , oranges
for example , don't is because bacteria may be attracted to the calyx
opening in a dropped apple and so enter the core . Some people drinking
apple juice may get ill and noone does from drinking orange juice .
One of the sources is known to be cow manure but there are
questions about the manure of other possible carriers , sheep and deer for
example . Have there been any studies completed to show that droppings of
sheep and deer are possible sources of infection?
All the evidence I have heard of so far indicates that there is no
problem with cider because the process of fermentation kills off e coli . A
good thing , considering the thousands of liters of cider made from apples
which have dropped on cow pastures .
One Normandy producer does insist , though , that the cider made
from cow grazed orchards smells of manure . He would say that , though ,
wouldn't he because he has a bush orchard , ungrazed , and picks all his
apples by hand .
That same producer also insists on keeping nutrient levels low in
the orchard as a means of improving cider quality . One of the points here
, though , is that his fermentation process requires low nutrient levels in
the juice .
------------------------------
Subject: old trees/young trees
From: jack o feil <feilorchards@juno.com>
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 18:44:11 -0800
I'm a semiretired commercial apple grower in North Central Washington. It
can take a newly planted apple tree up to six years to settle down and
lose its juvenile tendencies and produce fruit representative of the
variety. For a tree on dwarfing root stock the time is much less than for
a tree on a seedling root. My observations are that once the tree has
settled down there are no differences in the fruit from a young tree
compared to there fruit from an old tree, providing the old tree is
healthy, properly pruned and fertilized. However, the fruit from the
inside of large old tree will be of lesser quality(not as sweet and with
less flavor) than the fruit from the outside where there is more exposure
to the sun and leaf photosynthesis is greater. If it's true that the best
tasting apples make the best cider,use the apples from the outside for
cider and from the inside for apple butter or something where sugar is
added or discard them.
Jack from Wenatchee, the Apple Capital of the World
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Sheep, potassium,and general nutrition
From: Terence L Bradshaw <madshaw@innevi.com>
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 22:07:04 -0400
At 09:00 AM 4/5/2003 -0700, Andrew Lea wrote:
>First of all, running sheep or cattle in cider orchards is absolutely
>traditional in NW European cider areas eg Somerset, Devon, Hereford and
>Normandy....The animals go in thin (spring) and they come out fat (autumn)
>just before harvest! That growth comes from soil / grass nitrogen
>building up into animal protein. Yes of course the beasts do excrete
>some soluble nitrogen which is recycled, but as they grow they
>incorporate much of it into their own body mass.
Okay, I'll admit you've got a point here. As someone who grew up on a
dairy farm, eating barnyard drops under the half-dozen trees we had without
washing them, I shouldn't be worried about critters in the orchard. But
now twenty years later as a fruit researcher, I have had the 'animals +
fruit = bad ' idea pounded into me. For my cider, however, I am still
known to ravage old orchard where horses are kept. I'm just saying that my
conditioning of late has led me to eschew any practices outside of a HACCP
plan, at least publicly.
>One thing which is _not_ removed is potassium, since it's excreted in
>the urine and not significantly incorporated into body mass.
I agree with the potassium note. I was pulling together my fertilizer
order for the 7 acre research orchard I tend to recently. The orchard
consists of all dessert fruit, varying age (2-20 years), varying rootstock
(M9 - Seedling), planted on very sandy soil with no real nitrogen
reserves. Still, by fertilizing according to foliar samples taken last
summer, my final order is in the range of 250 pounds calcium nitrate and
3000 pounds sulfated potash magnesia.
That said, and to bring it back to cidering, I am curious about the
nutrient requirements of cider trees vs. dessert trees. I understand the
nitrogen part (less is better), and even some researchers including this
list's own Ian Merwin are coming around to the idea of 'supply side'
nutrient management for increased fruit quality. My question relates more
to the other elements, particularly boron and calcium, both of which
directly affect fruit quality. I spray both foliarly every year, but if
the cider apples are not to be stored, are these materials important, so
long as they do not limit the growth of the tree?
Something I've been wondering,
Terry B
Terence Bradshaw
1189 Wheeler Road
Calais, VT 05648
madshaw@innevi.com
(802)229-2004
The views represented by me are mine and mine only................
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End of Cider Digest #1034
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