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Cider Digest #1056
From: cider-request@talisman.com
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Subject: Cider Digest #1056, 18 July 2003
Cider Digest #1056 18 July 2003
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
pears for perry ("Diane Gagnon")
Alternance questions ("McGonegal, Charles")
Ontario Cider - The easy way ("David McGregor")
Re: Cider Digest #1055, 14 July 2003 (jack o feil)
Re: priming (Dick Dunn)
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Subject: pears for perry
From: "Diane Gagnon" <gagnond@endirect.qc.ca>
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:08:48 -0400
What kind of pears in the eastern USA, Quebec Ontario area should I be
looking for in order to make a decent perry /cider ? Denis Quebec
(gagnond@endirect.qc.ca)
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Subject: Alternance questions
From: "McGonegal, Charles" <Charles.McGonegal@uop.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:16:17 -0500
I've also pondered the question that the Anderson's raised - can trees that
can't be broken of alternating, be 'reset', so you can at least have a small
production every year?
But that begs another question - are apple trees synchronzing with each
other? If alternation was random, I would expect to get a half crop every
year. Or at least if I had enough trees to smooth out the variations, I
would expect an average around half. In our own orchard (mainly British
sweet/sharp types), we see some alternance, and it seem like most of the
varieities alternate together. So the whole orchard has 'on' years and
'off' years. Not that we've documented it - it's just an impression.
I can think of a couple ways to try 'resetting' alternating trees - knocking
blossoms off, thinning to extinction, even grafting and planting the same
variety two years in a row, to have the trees at different ages.
But if the trees are synchronizing, breaking that tree-tree communication
may be very hard. Forest trees synchronize by airborne hormones. An
orchard is a pretty dense environment to try interfering at that level.
Has anyone observed, or know of studies, that might suggest that all the
trees of a cultivar(s) in an orchard really do alternate together?
Charles McGonegal
AEppelTreow Winery
Burlington, WI
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Subject: Ontario Cider - The easy way
From: "David McGregor" <david.mcgregor@primus.ca>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:36:36 -0400
OK, Fellow Ontarians...here it is
Take 21 litres of Presidents Choice Apple Cider from No Frills/Zehrs (7
x 3 litre containers). It is in the chilled compartment next to the
salads.
Add a splash of suphate. (or four Camden tablets if you're so inclined)
Let stand for 24 hours - just to be sure.
Add 1 kg sugar (ordinary sugar is fine). Honey is worth a try, but
doesn't make much difference to the end product. Honest.
Add E-118 sparkling wine yeast. The SG at this point is about 1055-ish,
but no need to measure, it doesn't affect the final result too much.
Primary ferment for about two weeks, until 1010 or until the big bubbles
have gone down.
Decant (I think they call it `rack off`=B4 into a demijohn and secondary
ferment for about two weeks until 1001 (add finings if you like it
commercially clear).
If you dont have a SG measuring stick then wait until the cider is clear
or the small bubbles have stopped.
Now bottle into Grolsch bottles (with half a sugar) after two weeks and
leave for two weeks...
And hey presto....
20 or so litres of the crispest, freshest, sparkliest, juiciest Cider
ever.
and all for about $25 Canadian dollars (which, by the way is nearly the
same as 24 American Dollars....or it will be soon - ha !)
I'm on my seventh batch now, every one as crisp and consistant as the
last - except the one I dropped, which was the best of the lot.
Remember don't get obsessed with quantities, science, acidity, tartness,
tannins, SG, dryness, wetness, dampness... just throw together the
above, close your eyes and enjoy.
If not, sling it and start again.
Let us know how you get on....
Enjoy !
David
SW Ontario
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1055, 14 July 2003
From: jack o feil <feilorchards@juno.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:36:41 -0700
Thinning apples for size and return bloom here in Central
Washington is a must for commercial growers to compete in foreign and
distant domestic markets against less expensive local fruit. Within
reason, an apple tree will only produce a certain amount of bulk so a
tree will produce, for instance, 300 pounds of fruit large or small. I
have not seen research that has determined if small sized fruit is of
equal flavor quality to larger fruit of the same variety, but in our
area and in the market place fruit, thinned for size is considered
superior right or wrong.
Blossom thinning or early fruit thinning does help with the
biennial bearing problem , the earlier the better although some varieties
in our area, Northern Spy, Baldwin. Early Mac and others don't seem
respond well to any technique. On varieties with moderate biennial
bearing tendencies, the habit can be broken by hand thinning blossom
clusters ten to twelve inches apart and then. after the fruit has
set,.thin to one apple per cluster. If it doesn't work the first year do
the same thing again the next time you have a snowball bloom. if you
still have biennial bearing just accept it.
Another factor in return bloom is tree vigor. A tree with low
vigor or stressed will probably have return bloom problems, even
varieties that tend to crop every year under ordinary growing conditions.
A good dormant pruning and an adequate fertilizer and watering program
should return the tree to a vigorous state.
As a commercial grower of dessert apples, I use aggressive
chemical thinning and add ethephon to stimulate return bloom.The
recommendations for thinning in Central Washington can be found by
searching the web using wsu edu tree fruit and find thinning
recommendations.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: priming
From: rcd@talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 10:59:27 -0600 (MDT)
Tim Bray <tbray@mcn.org> wrote:
> >I'm with Dick - ciders are generally better with less carbonation. The
> >great Norman ciders are barely sparkling ("petillant").
Claude Jolicoeur replied:
> I have a question here - what do you think of true Champagne? Would you say
> the sparkling hides defects?...
Not necessarily, but it can.
If you intentionally remove the "sparkle" from champagne, even a good
Champagne probably won't taste that good...but it's because the wine is
made with the intent of having a lot of carbonation as part of what it is;
that's not a fault.
However, mediocre sparkling wines do get by with using the carbonation to
cover up faults in the wine. Same is true of mediocre ciders. Of course,
sweetening is also used to cover faults.
But ignoring the poor-quality wines and ciders, the matter of whether to
carbonate is part of the overall "design" and balance of the cider. And as
I said, I'm not opposed to carbonated ciders. Nor do I think they are
inferior. But I do maintain that it's more challenging to make a very good
still cider.
I've been trying to "reach" a good friend of mine with cider. He's serious
about red wine, and about good beer. I've gotten him to try various good
ciders. Nothing really clicked _until_ I served him one of my ciders,
which is actually not that great, but is completely still. At that point
he made the connection (with his palate) between cider and wine. I wish I
could find some more still ciders for him to taste.
>...It is true that a "cidre plat" can be
> excellent, but a naturally sparkling "cidre bouche sec" is more festive...
Why is that? Is it something about the carbonation, or is it just
cultural?
> ...I think both have their place,
> just as white wine and Champagne also have their place.
Oh, sure, agreed.
But there aren't enough still ciders. And I do believe that as long as
they are uncommon, it's going to be more difficult for cider to pull itself
out of the "alco-pop" category in the general public's mind.
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
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End of Cider Digest #1056
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