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Cider Digest #1052
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Errors-To: cider-errors@talisman.com
Reply-To: cider@talisman.com
To: cider-list@talisman.com
Subject: Cider Digest #1052, 2 July 2003
Cider Digest #1052 2 July 2003
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
How thin is thin? ("Pat Maloney")
Re: boiling juice; priming (Michael Arighi)
juice extractor advice ("Diane Gagnon")
Squirrels ("Sean Metrick")
Cider notes from AHA National Conference ("Charles McGonegal")
This years batches (Jen)
Cider in Normandy ("James W Luedtke")
calories per pint of cider ("tugger")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: How thin is thin?
From: "Pat Maloney" <pmaloney@callatg.com>
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 08:51:01 -0700
Taciturn? Ouch. OK, OK - I got something! It's more of a pre-cider,
raw ingredient question. I have a couple decent size apple trees and
I'm wondering how aggressive I should be with thinning out my apples at
this stage of their growth. Right now they range from 2 to 3cm in
diameter and grow from 1 to 5 in a group. In the past I've thinned all
the groups down to 1 single apple but this year I am leaving 2. I was
told that the remaining apples will grow bigger without all the
competition but I wonder just how much of a difference it makes, if any.
I've only lived at this house 4 seasons and one of the trees only
produces fruit every other year, so I haven't had a lot of opportunities
to experiment. Any thoughts from my fellow taciturn digest denizens?
Pat Maloney
------------------------------
Subject: Re: boiling juice; priming
From: Michael Arighi <calzinman@earthlink.net>
Date: 29 Jun 2003 16:51:59 -0700
I'd wondered about boiling the juice--seemed a hangover from brewing
that wouldn't be good with cider--but deferred saying anything, since it
sounded like you'd done this in the past with no ill effects. Is that
true, or was this a new technique for you? As usual, if I try something
new and have an odd result, I try to remember what it is I changed and
"unchange" it back to what worked.
On another topic, my standard priming is the same as I use for beer: 3/4
c. corn sugar/5 gal. cider. Gives me a good head, but not enough to blow
bottles or foam it all out the top when I open it. Don't know if
everyone else uses champagne bottles or not, but, for safety, I do. I've
also found bottles from some of my local microbrews are strong enough.
But my Dad worked for a glass company and I've been trained to be rather
wary--or at least mindful--of what you put under pressure.
Michael Arighi
Oakland CA
On Sat, 2003-06-28 at 23:39, cider-request@talisman.com wrote:
> -
>
> Subject: Thank you, Cider list denizens!
> From: Cameron Adams <cadams@arczip.com>
> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:38:13 -0400
>
> I just want to thank everyone who responded to my post. It seems that
> there is a consensus here, DON'T BOIL YOUR APPLE JOUCE! I will try
> another concentrate batch and report the outcome. Hopefully, the flavor
> doesn't come up. Thanks again for the great support from this list
> (it's the most congenial I've joined yet)--cam
>
- --
Michael Arighi <calzinman@earthlink.net>
------------------------------
Subject: juice extractor advice
From: "Diane Gagnon" <gagnond@endirect.qc.ca>
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 07:55:12 -0400
Being a " home " producer, (25-50 litres/year) I processed the apples in
a small commercial juicer ( centrifugal) with fairly good results ,but
wounder if using a presser would increase quality . I used to get my
juice from a commercial producer , with good resuts too but due to large
processing gear, juice seems to be of a lesser quality so any advices
would be appreciated as to the best type of extracting system "
recommended " for small scale cidering experimentation Denis
gagnond@endirect.qc.ca
------------------------------
Subject: Squirrels
From: "Sean Metrick" <lsmet@5-aces.net>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 08:21:02 -0700
I am wondering what techniques people have found successful for mitigating
squirrels on your apple trees. It seems that they always eat one bite
from every apple when they are half ripe and by harvest time there are no
apples left. They seem to chew through netting with no problem. Do you
just have to plant enough trees that they can't possibly eat all the fruit?
Thanks for your ideas.
Sean
Lsmet@5-aces.net
------------------------------
Subject: Cider notes from AHA National Conference
From: "Charles McGonegal" <mamcgone@intergate.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 19:39:51 -0500
A number of folks asked me to post some of the slides from my Conference
cider talk on the web.
Here they are:
http://www.aeppeltreow.com/sweet_pome_brew.htm
It's not all of them, but it does have some basic info, some of the tables,
and my page of sources.
Thanks for all the kind feedback at the Conference, and good luck with your
projects.
Charles McGonegal
AEppeltreow Winery
------------------------------
Subject: This years batches
From: Jen <jclaster@localnet.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 07:00:04 -0400
I am quite pleased with the batches of cider we made this year. The
majority of our apples were from neglected old trees- quite a few
Baldwins, some Blue Pearmains, some Northern Spys, along with quite a
few unknown apples. We also are fortunate enough to have an heirloom
apple orchard not far away where we collected quite a few blemished
russets, Esopus Spitzenburgs, and Black Oxfords.
Overall, quality is excellent. Most of our ciders came in with
very high acidity- in the range of .08% total acidity expressed as
malic acid- which I attribute to incomplete ripening on neglected,
overburdened trees, although I could be wrong. I happen to like this
acidity, and it is mellowing with bottle age.
We did some experimenting with pitched yeasts this year, although in a
very unscientific manner. For most of our batches we used various
commercial cider yeasts, for one a Cotes des Blanc white wine yeast,
and for another a Champagne yeast. Since we made no effort to ferment
the same blend of juice with different yeasts, it is difficult to know
what is responsible for the flavor profile of any given batch of cider.
However, in general I have not been wowed by the cider yeasts. They
seem prone to producing a "wet dog" aroma, which I have been told is
the result of yeasts fermenting under stress due to low nutrient
levels. However, neither of the other two yeasts produced this smell,
and I have no reason to believe that they would have had higher
nutrient levels. Once again, sloppy science leads to meaningless data!
Most importantly,I am thoroughly enjoying the ongoing evaluation of
this years ciderous labors- Cheers!
------------------------------
Subject: Cider in Normandy
From: "James W Luedtke" <james.luedtke@cgi.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 07:31:15 -0500
I just returned from a 2 week vacation in France, including 3 days in
Normandy. Following advice given in digest #1002 last fall, (thanks Tim
Steury, Derek Bisset, Richard & Susan Anderson and others), we stayed in
the Cambremer area and toured the Route de Cidre.
The route is roughly 20 miles, and 21 producers are listed on it. The
producers qualify annually to be included on the route, they distinguish
themselves with signs saying "Cru de Cambremer." All provide tastings of
cider and/or calvados and pommeau (pommeau is an aged combo of
unfermented cider and calvados, an amazing apertif). Many also give
tours of their facilities. Unfortunately for this non-french speaker,
not many on the route know english. Those who do, however, are willing
to give advice to amateurs like me. M. DuPont's #1 point is "Happy apple
trees make good cider." He maintains that any area can develop it's own
terrior (sp?), i.e. a distinctive territorial characteristic. Additional
advice: Never fertilize, grind only fully ripe apples, let the pommace
rest/oxidize before pressing, ferment at 12 degrees Celsius.
I can echo Tim Steury's advice to try Pierre Huet's 'tradition'
calvados. I don't recall just how old it is, I believe around 16 years,
but it is excellent, very smooth. The ciders are listed as sweet or
semi-dry. Although I liked them both, I preferred the semi-dry, which is
still fairly sweet. Both styles have a nice tannic level, and good body.
It was interesting to see much old cider equipment - 10 foot circular
stone troughs for mashing the apples (most of these are now growing
petunias), and huge wooden presses. The presses are about 18 feet long,
with a 8" diameter wood screw pulling down a 10" X 16" pressing beam.
If you go, stay at a B&B, called chambre d'hote in France. A number of
them, such as La Vignerie in Cambremer, are cider producers. Check out
the Gite de France website for B&B listings.
Jim Luedtke
------------------------------
Subject: calories per pint of cider
From: "tugger" <tugger@netreach.net>
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 13:11:47 -0400
how does one determine the calories per pint? I usually make
6 galons with 2-4 lbs cane sugar and a tube of white labs
cider yeast and it produces about a 10-12% alcohol beverage.
I am told that there are 7 calories per gram of alcohol and
a web search indicates that there 1 oz ='s 28.35 grams.
If I do the multiplication I get 16 x 28.35 x 7 ='s 3175
calories per pint. That seems a bit excessive but maybe
that why I put on weight drinking my cider. Is my math
correct or have I missed somethin? thanks
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1052
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