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Cider Digest #1004
From: cider-request@talisman.com
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Subject: Cider Digest #1004, 15 November 2002
Cider Digest #1004 15 November 2002
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Basic cider question ("T. J. Higgins")
Questions - Andrew Lea (DLebeck@aol.com)
re:cider quality (Bob and Winnie)
Spiced Cider ("Hari Arisetty")
Campfield apple ("KEITH HALTERMAN")
PH and Acid relation (Dan Aldrich)
Yeasts, again (Tim Bray)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Basic cider question
From: "T. J. Higgins" <tjhiggin@mail.hiwaay.net>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:51:04 -0600 (CST)
Michael Hartsock wrote:
> I then pitched pasteur champange yeast and
> fermentation started within 4 hrs. Here is my
> question, after two weeks in the primary, I racked it
> to the secondary. The gravity at this point was 0.996
> and it tasted quite sour, but not vinegary. Will this
> mellow out? If so, how long should I expect it to sit
> in the secondary and then the bottle? Are these
> typical results for cider made with champagne yeast?
Pretty typical. I don't care to use champagne yeast anymore
as it ferments far too dry for my taste. Ale yeast will leave
some residual sweetness. I've also had good results with the
cider yeast from WYeast (#3766). Someone here in the homebrew
club suggested mead yeast. Not a bad idea. I have not tried
it yet, though.
Every year I also do a natural fermentation. Just put 2 gallons
of cider in a sterile carboy, put an airlock on it, and see what
you get. Some years are better than others, but it's always fun
to see how it turns out.
You may also want to try smaller batches until you find a recipe
that works. If something goes wrong, it's much less painful to
pour out two gallons than five! The disadvantage is that if it
turns out really good, two gallons disappear pretty quickly.
Cheers,
- --
T.J. Higgins
Huntsville, AL
------------------------------
Subject: Questions - Andrew Lea
From: DLebeck@aol.com
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 22:16:38 EST
> What to do now? Possibilities are:
>
> 1. Let the current batch go to dryness and enjoy it as is.
> 2. As (1) but re-sweeten with sugar when fully fermented and follow
> advice above.
> 3. As (2) but pasteurize in bottle to ensure total sterility.
>
>
Thanks very much for the advice. However, I again tasted the cider and found
it very much to my liking. So, I bottled it! In fact, as it ends up the cider
is about 7.5% and really packs a punch. It is still not as sweet as I would
have liked but I really do like this stuff. My question is: Is this stuff
safe? I put the bottles in my cellar where I plan to age it a bit (if I can
keep my hands off it). Should I have waited to bottle? And how long should
it age?
Thanks again One and all
Doug
------------------------------
Subject: re:cider quality
From: Bob and Winnie <natvwine@cut.net>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:31:49 -0700
In addition to Andrew Lea's excellent observations about Matt's comments
below, here's another 2 cents worth.
As a winery owner, I see many hundreds of folks from all over the world.
Mostly, the Europeans are receptive to stronger, more complex, even
quirky wines and ciders. Mostly, Americans are looking for one
dimensional "nice" wines and ciders (I call these "Barbie").
Of the Americans who aren't so easily scared, there are two types; the
first are those who have traveled widely and have developed versatile
pallates, the second are those who have grown up in the country on food
and drink that is homemade.
Bob Sorenson
sulfite free and lovin it
> As a neophyte to cider in general and the cider digest in particular, I've
> been making a few batches and tasting as much cider as I can find available.
> I'm quite interested in the French approach but have just been burned by
> what I have purchased. I went to a very reputable local wine guru/merchant
> in a large metropolitan area and brought home about a dozen french ciders,
> mostly pretty dry, all around 4-5% alcohol by volume. Here's the rub. For
> the most part, all were pretty tainted with heavy lactic, phenolic, and
> acetobacter character. I'm appreciative of the french method of natural
> fermentation, but is this indicative of the fresh product?
>
> I am guessing that although knowledgable, my local wine guy has no control
> over the age of product and the imported ciders have all suffered from too
> much aging and the small bacterial populations have run amuck. Or are all
> these ciders supposed to taste like out of control Belgian Lambic beers?
>
> May Gambrinus bless sulfites.
>
> Matt Swihart
------------------------------
Subject: Spiced Cider
From: "Hari Arisetty" <h_arisetty@tcbinc.org>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:34:22 -0500
I'm in Eastern Massachusetts and all the apple farms are in Western Mass,
and I'm too lazy to drive 75 miles to get 10 gallons of apple cider. That
leaves me buying gallon jugs of prepackaged cider from the city farmstands.=
Since I can't play with different apple blends to get different flavors,
I'm left with adjuncts.
I decided to experiment with my very first batch of cider, which probably
wasn't a great idea, but in any case I added about 1/4 cup of cider spice
(spices used to make mulled cider/wine) to the juice as I transferred from
the primary to the secondary. I'm probably going to leave it in there for
3-4 weeks, and then bottle.
>>and it tasted quite sour, but not vinegary. Will this
mellow out? If so, how long should I expect it to sit
Well, I'm on my first carboy of cider, and I had the same problem about a
month after i pitched yeast - a harsh aftertaste. Although everything
I've read indicates that is a temporary problem that solves itself, given
enough time.
>>in the secondary and then the bottle? Are these
typical results for cider made with champagne yeast?
I'm using wyeast's cider yeast, and the brochure explicitly states sulphur
smells during fermentation.
|| Hari Arisetty | Investor Services Manager ||
|| The Community Builders | 617 695 9595 x109 ||
------------------------------
Subject: Campfield apple
From: "KEITH HALTERMAN" <keithray@pgtc.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 20:51:47 -0600
Today I received a list of 500 varieties of apples available as
scionwood. On this list is Campfield. From everything I've ever read
this apple is suppose to be extinct. I was just wondering if possibly
it's not, or is someone just trying to take advantage of cider lovers
who would love to find this apple.
Keith
------------------------------
Subject: PH and Acid relation
From: Dan Aldrich <daldrich@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 12:24:33 -0500
Is there a way to calculate PH if you know the acid of fresh cider by
titration? I've been told you can't but it seems there must be a way if
you assume what the acid is from freshly pressed cider.
Thanks,
- -d
------------------------------
Subject: Yeasts, again
From: Tim Bray <tbray@mcn.org>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:03:54 -0800
Does anybody on the List have experience using lager yeast to ferment
cider? How well did it work? What is its alcohol tolerance?
I note that White Labs now offers a cider yeast. Has anyone tried this?
Cheers,
Tim
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1004
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