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Cider Digest #0985
From: cider-request@talisman.com
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To: cider-list@talisman.com
Subject: Cider Digest #985, 5 August 2002
Cider Digest #985 5 August 2002
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: cool fermenting (Brian Ross)
Re: Idea for cool fermenting cellar (Scott Smith)
Tannin addition for that "faux European cider apple" effect (Scott Smith)
Cider Digest #983 (Rcapshew@aol.com)
Brown Snout (David Pickering)
RE: Cider Digest #984, 31 July 2002 ("Richard & Susan Anderson")
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Subject: Re: cool fermenting
From: Brian Ross <rossoon@imag.net>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 00:20:30 -0700
One trick I have used successfully to slow down a particularly fast
initial ferment is simple evaporative cooling. Put a large (preferably
scrap) T-shirt over the carboy; place in a tray of water. You can, if
needed, enhance the cooling with a fan.
Brian Ross
Burnaby, BC
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Idea for cool fermenting cellar
From: Scott Smith <scott@cs.jhu.edu>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 15:27:19 -0400
Thanks for the helpful response, Drew (and, others who replied by email).
> From: DrewZimmer@aol.com
> As far as temperatures go, I'm afraid that Scott won't be seeing the
> magic
> 41F. My records show a low temp. of 55F in January and a high of 63F in
> August.
I haven't been able to any precise records of soil temperature in
different parts of the US, but I did find several references to 55F so
that is probably a good guess of what I can achieve. Warcollier
mentions the need for refrigeration to achieve the best fermentation
temperatures.
> ... I'm planning to buy a very small air
> conditioner to chill my closet to 40F-45F.
That sounds like a good possibility. I also saw plans to in effect use
a fridge as an A/C unit: cut an opening in the closet in which your
fridge with the main door opened (or removed) could be tightly fitted
against.
Someone emailed me about plans for a basement root cellar design they
saw which sounded familiar to what I was doing. Indeed a root cellar
has a similar purpose. In searching the web, I found a design which had
a cold intake pipe coming in from outside to bring in cold air to the
floor, and a high pipe by the ceiling which bled off hot air (see
http://www.organicgardening.com/library/rootcellar.html ). If I can get
myself to punch a hole in my house, this could provide some natural
A/C; if it gets too cold the pipe can be closed. Also my vague
knowledge of heat-rises-cool-falls is that if it were hot outside the
cellar would not warm up much because the hot outside air would not
descend the cool pipe.
Cheers,
Scott
------------------------------
Subject: Tannin addition for that "faux European cider apple" effect
From: Scott Smith <scott@cs.jhu.edu>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 15:35:24 -0400
I've been making my recipe for cider this fall and am going to be using
apples without significant tannin and so am planning to add grape tannin
powder for the "faux cider apple" effect. In reading the digest
archives, 1 1/2 tsp per 5 US gallons seems to be the most commonly
recommended figure, with a minimum of 1/8 tsp/5gal and a max of 5
tsp/5gal (the latter recommended by Paul Correnty back in '93). I
believe part of the reason for the wide discrepency is that tannins
precipitate out during aging, and the people who don't believe in adding
so much may not be aging their ciders very long. Of course taste
preferences also differ.
Now, doing some calculations, assuming you want to add .15% by weight of
tannin (to bring it up to a level more like the .2% found in European
cider apple must, assuming .05% tannin in the dessert apples), you get 5
gals = 18.9 l = 18900 cc * 1.070 g/cc = 20000 g * .15% = 30g =~ 10 tsp
(right?), which is a lot! According to Andrew via the digest archive,
half of measured apple tannin is polyphenols which are not tannic; so,
assuming powdered grape tannin is all tannic polyphenols (I have no
basis for this assumption), that gives 5tsp/5 gal as a target addition
amount to give a reasonable "faux cider apple" effect. This is more
than most additions suggested and I'm not sure why. My guess is the
methods and taste target of the standard US cider recipe are somewhat
different than that of a traditional European cider recipe. Apple and
grape tannins could also differ in other ways (e.g. bitterness based on
the mix of tannin types) so less grape tannin is tolerated. Anyway I'm
just guessing; any ideas?
In white wine recipes, I have found figures of 1/2tsp to 1 1/2tsp tannin
added per 5 gals quoted; white wines are low in tannin. Mead recipes
seem to range from 1 tsp to 2 1/2 tsp per 5 gals added. Jackish,
"Modern Winemaking" mentions that a young red wine has the tannic taste
equivalent of 1/4tsp tannin powder added to 8oz water, which is 20
tsp/5gal. This is a lot, but a lot of tannin precipitates out of red
wine during aging.
I would appreciate it if anyone had a story of adding an amount of grape
tannin that they felt was "too much", even after 6 months or more of
aging, or of getting a nice result from a large-ish addition.
Scott
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Digest #983
From: Rcapshew@aol.com
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 22:37:09 EDT
"Also, I am interested in planting more suitable trees for future years. I
noticed on Mr. Lea's (excellent) website that there is a nursury in
Winchester, Illinois that lists several good cider varieties. Anyone who has
purchased from this nursury is invited to give me their impression of the
product and service, online or off."
I have been very pleased with Cider Hill Nursery based in
Winchester, Illinois and run by Lee Elliott. He has first
class trees and service.
Bob Capshew
Southern Indiana
------------------------------
Subject: Brown Snout
From: David Pickering <davidp@netwit.net.au>
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 20:35:52 +1000
Re Richard and Susan Anderson's query on the confusion over Brown Snout
/ Browns Apple.
Brown Snout is small and has a distinctive russetting at the flower end
- - hence the name. Once seen always remembered.
You can check the two at the NSW Agriculture website
Brown Snout at http://www.agric.nsw.gov.au/reader/11585
and Browns Apple at http://www.agric.nsw.gov.au/reader/11584
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Cider Digest #984, 31 July 2002
From: "Richard & Susan Anderson" <baylonanderson@rockisland.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 08:33:36 -0700
A correction, regarding my comments on Brown Snouts should have read "not" a
good candidate for a single varietal cider. I tend to post late, and as
Susan points out my editing reflects this.
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #985
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