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Cider Digest #0958
From: cider-request@talisman.com
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Subject: Cider Digest #958, 25 March 2002
Cider Digest #958 25 March 2002
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Cider Digest #957, 19 March 2002 ("Reynold Tomes")
cider and e. coli (Terry and Julie Bradshaw)
French Cider Techniques (Andrew Lea)
Need help saving orchard (Forrest Snyder)
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #957, 19 March 2002
From: "Reynold Tomes" <rtomes@burnsmcd.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:54:03 -0600
Re: The best French source I've used in my research has been Georges
Warcollier's "The Principles and Practice of Cidermaking" (London: Leonard
Hill, 1949). This is the English translation of the 3rd edition (1928) of
Warcollier's original French work "La Cidrerie". Lots of good material in
this thorough book...
I did a relatively exhaustive search of my internet book sources (in-print =
and out-of-print) and was unable to locate a copy of this book. It might =
be helpful for Ben to post the ISBN number; sometimes searching on an ISBN =
will turn up a book when title and author do not. Any other ideas to =
locate a copy are welcome.
Regards,
Reynold Tomes
------------------------------
Subject: cider and e. coli
From: Terry and Julie Bradshaw <madshaw@innevi.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 19:05:01 -0500
Let's not allow ourselves to think that our unique juice (must) is immune
to bacterial and other infections due to it's acidity and/or tannin
levels. The particular strain of e. coli that has caused such major
problems (0157:H7) has been shown to live in very acid environments, down
to a pH of 2 or less. And tannins do not seem to have any effect on
it. Fermentation, however has been shown to reduce total coliform levels
by the required 5-log reduction for wholesale sales of fresh (sweet) cider,
so we have less to worry about in that regard. I just would like to remind
folks that there is a nasty bug out there that can do us some real damage
(who doesn't drink a little of their juice fresh off the press) if we don't
keep things clean and watch out. And I haven't even gotten onto the
patulin bandwagon.....
Best Regards,
Terry Bradshaw
At 10:08 PM 3/19/2002 -0700, you wrote:
>. For us, the product is stable for flavor, shipping,
>and shelf-life purposes after our method of pasteurization. We are not
>worried about e.coli as we use high acid, low pH, washed apples and the
>tannin, acidity, alcohol, and CO2 pressure prevent e.coli from developing.
Terry and Julie Bradshaw
93 Stowe Street
Waterbury, VT 05676
madshaw@innevi.com
jul@innevi.com
(802)244-0953
------------------------------
Subject: French Cider Techniques
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:29:38 +0000
Ben Watson wrote:
> Though it galls me to recommend my "competition," there is a good three-page
> step-by-step overview of the French cidermaking process in Proulx and
> Nichols' book "Cider" (Storey, 1997). It's concise and useful, but IMHO
> makes keeving sound much simpler and straightforward in theory than it
> actually may prove in practice for amateurs.
>
Ben is 101% right. In fact that section of Proulx and Nichols is a
straight translation into English of the booklet 'Comment faire du bon
cidre' which was published in the 1970's. It was designed for French
farmhouse producers who already have access to fruit from low nitrogen
mature traditional bittersweet cider orchards which the rest of us don't
have.
I have been trying to get on top of keeving for years. I know the theory
backwards, and have written about it many times, but I can tell you it
is much much more difficult in practice than it sounds (unless you are
born French of course!). Mine fails more often than it succeeds! That
doesn't stop me trying but I can tell you it is damned difficult.
Temperature and timing are just two of the most critical factors - our
modern mild Northern European winters work against it, and for a weekend
cidermaker it's a virtual impossibility - you have to rack right on the
critical day or you will blow it!
Please please don't anyone run away with the idea that all you have to
do is to follow a few simple rules and keeving will always work. It
won't and it's no accident that modern commercial French cider
production relies heavily on refrigeration and centrifugation to achieve
a reliable keeve or at least to successfully simulate its effects!
Andrew Lea, nr Oxford UK.
- ----------------------------------
Visit the Wittenham Hill Cider Page at
http://www.cider.org.uk OR
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea
------------------------------
Subject: Need help saving orchard
From: Forrest Snyder <fsnyder@bennington.edu>
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:23:20 -0500
Hello,
I've been an amateur cider maker for a little while and have an ongoing
interest in antique apple varieties. I need your help and/or advice.
I live in southwestern Vermont (New England, USA). Nearby, there is a
woman who has an orchard of 150+ antique apple varieties. Her late
husband planted this orchard over 50 or more years. Unfortunately, she
has lost the map and listing of varieties! Further, she no longer has
the energy to maintain the trees. Because she is elderly and the future
of the orchard is in doubt when she dies, she has agreed to let me and a
friend take cuttings of all the trees and graft the scions to new
rootstock, planting them on a new piece of land.
I need help determining the steps involved. What is the best rootstock?
Where can I get this rootstock? When should the cuttings be taken? What
is the best grafting tool/knife? Are there tricks to getting the scion
to take? Any and all help would be greatly appreciated!
Thank you in advance,
Forrest Snyder
+----------------------------------+
Forrest Snyder
Bennington College
Route 67A
Bennington Vermont 05201
telephone: 802-440-4556
fax: 802-440-4550
mailto:forrest@criticalceramics.org
+----------------------------------+
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End of Cider Digest #958
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