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Cider Digest #1019
From: cider-request@talisman.com
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Subject: Cider Digest #1019, 26 January 2003
Cider Digest #1019 26 January 2003
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
French Cider Yeasts ("Patrick Murphy")
Tannins ("Benedicte Rhyne")
Assay results from Mt. Vernon (DrewZimmer@aol.com)
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Subject: French Cider Yeasts
From: "Patrick Murphy" <themurphy@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:02:51 +0000
As I understand the process, there is a succession of five major
fermentative bacteria in the French Process, as identified by Loic Bertholot
of Cote Albret Cidre, in conjunction with INRA, near Rennes.
Whilst they still make use of the wild yeast for the fermentation the cidre
is checked with some vigilance to ensure that, over its 4 month and 13
degree celsius, fermentation, the succession is progressing as required. If
there does seem to be a delay Loic innoculates the cidre with the required
bacteria.
So the fermentative bacterium are known, the succession sequence is known,
the appropriate cidre characteristics for succession are known, now we've
just got to get Loic (or others) to tell us what the bacterium are.
I know that this doesn't help you but it is interesting.
Patrick Murphy in Oz.
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Subject: Tannins
From: "Benedicte Rhyne" <winectry@ktc.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:20:25 -0600
A response to Dick Dunn regarding tannins analysis. Because of the
chemical diversity of total phenolics, there is no method by which total
phenolics can be precisely quantitated. The Folin Ciocalteu analytical
method has been generally preferred, usually with an arbitrary standard
such as gallic acid. However, there must always be an intrinsic error of
the reactivity of non phenolics (especially RS) constituants with the
tungstate reagent. It can be relatively important in cider of low
phenolic content.
When I have done tannin apple measurements with Rhyne Cyder I used the
optical absorbance at 280 nm as a measure of total phenolics. This gave
me some kind of a comparison between apples without too much
interference. Because we do not have any anthocyanins in Cider it helps.
In wine you apply a correction of 4 to the non phenolics absorbance at
280 nm. I do not know what it would be for cider but figured if it is a
nominal correction it did not matter to me as I was doing it for a
comparison point of view. I am not familiar with the index of
permanganate but I can only assume that you would run in the same
problem since the ananlysis is based on oxydo reduction and RS is a good
reducteur. Hope this helps and answers your question.
Thanks for reading.
Benedicte Rhyne
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Subject: Assay results from Mt. Vernon
From: DrewZimmer@aol.com
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 21:05:19 EST
Dick's comments on tannin measurements in issue 1018 prompts me to add my
nickel's worth and also include the assay results from the current cider
trials at Mt. Vernon, Washington. I believe there is great value in
measuring sugar, acid and tannin in cider apple juice to see how they compare
with data taken from the same apples in other parts of the world. I want to
know how my Kinston Blacks grown near Puget Sound compare to those grown in
Sommerset and whether my cider has a chance to equal the best from the
premier cider regions of the world. On the other hand, if my Harry Master's
Jerseys have half the tannins of SW England's, then maybe I would use twice
as many in my blend.
I think the methods for measuring sugar content (brix, specific gravity) and
acidity (pH, titratable acid) are pretty standard throughout the world,
although attention needs to paid to acidity as to its type (sulfuric,
tartaric, malic). For tannin I vote for the permanganate titration method.
The procedure is as easy as titrating with sodium hydroxide for acidity and
the results are precise and repeatable. It may not measure "true" tannins, or
all tannins, or whatever, but it is what was used at Long Ashton. There's
over 80 years of data available there. If this method is used, the results
are directly comparable. We don't need to reinvent the wheel here, we just
want to know if our wheels are as fast as their's.
Anyway, below is the first data from the WSU research station. Hopefully we
can add to this every year and also expand the number of varieties. An
interesting note is that the cider apples this year have roughly half the
tannin of the LARS apples. I'd like to thank Andrew Lea for providing the
instructions for the permanganate titration, they worked perfectly. The data
will be easier to read if it is pasted into a spreadsheet or table.
VARIETY BRIX SP GR % SULFURIC % MALIC pH % TANNIN
Ashmead's Kernel 15.2 1.062 1.04 1.42 3.4 0.06
Brown Snout 14.8 1.064 0.44 0.61 4.0 0.11
Chisel Jersey 11.7 1.048 1.10 1.50 3.4 0.10
Foxwhelp 11.8 1.050 0.95 1.30 3.5 0.10
Jonagold 11.4 1.048 0.67 0.92 3.4 0.07
Karmijn de Sonnaville 14.6 1.060 1.19 1.63 3.3 0.06
Muscadet de Dieppe 15.0 1.064 0.32 0.44 4.4 0.10
Taylor's Sweet 13.2 1.054 0.20 0.27 4.7 0.08
Vileberie 12.0 1.050 0.33 0.45 4.0 0.37
Yarlington Mill 11.6 1.050 0.29 0.40 4.3 0.16
Drew Zimmerman
Seattle
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End of Cider Digest #1019
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