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Cider Digest #0975
From: cider-request@talisman.com
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Subject: Cider Digest #975, 10 June 2002
Cider Digest #975 10 June 2002
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Commercial Apple Orcharding Sites? ("Mark Ellis")
Yeasts (Andrew Lea)
Australian Wine Yeast AWY 350R (Andrew Lea)
calories? (mike tomlinson)
French Cider Apples ("Richard & Susan Anderson")
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Subject: Commercial Apple Orcharding Sites?
From: "Mark Ellis" <mark@artisansrus.com>
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 12:51:21 +1000
Hi All,
I am looking for some good "how-to" websites on developing apple orchards.
Any sites that spring to mind?
Thanks
Mark E. in OZ
**** http://www.Artisansrus.com ******
Promoting the Ancient Fermentable Arts
**************************************
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Subject: Yeasts
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 13:50:53 +0100
Mark asked:
> I have been reading up a bit about selecting yeasts for cider, and there are
> quite a lot of opposing opinions about going natural, or adding cultured
> strains of yeasts whether they be wine or beer or even special cider yeasts.
> Interested to read other peoples comments on their yeast selections good and
> bad etc .
When I was a lad at the Long Ashton Research Station back in the 70's,
we always used an Australian Wine Yeast called AWY 350R for both our
experimental and commercial fermentations. I think it probably came to
us from Dr Bryce Rankine at Roseworthy / Australian Wine Research
Institute. It had been
evaluated at LARS against many other commercial yeasts and those from
other research stations like Davis and Geisnheim, and we 'liked it so
much that we bought the company' - no not really, but we did like it!!
Of course all our fermentations were sulphited, the yeast was
sulphite-trained as grown up from a slope culture and was pitched to
give 5 million cells per ml of juice. We
usually added thiamin to all our fermentations too but I cannot say
whether this was an absolute requirement for this yeast. It was a good
neutral performer and a low sulphite producer. I think at least one
large UK cider company followed suit on it for a while too.
Now everyone uses dried yeasts (EC1118, CM, CS2, BC etc) and I don't
know whether AWY 350R ever made it to being a commercial dried yeast.
Many modern commercial fermentations are to high gravity with low juice
content ('chaptalized') so the technical requirements are vastly
different to what they are for small scale 'craft' producers. When I
started my own cider making I used CM for a while (I think this is good
old Montrachet from UC Davis), which was OK but too neutral and
wine-like for me. I tried BC (S Bayanus, a champagne yeast) but found it
to give a very dry and bitter aftertaste and it scavenged every last
drop of residual sugar. I believe it's often used for the high gravity
commercial cider fermentations.
Then I went on to 'natural' yeast but selected by juice sulphiting. This
gave more interesting flavours (quite a lot of ethyl acetate in the
early stage post fermentation but this soon matures away), and now I
try to make naturally conditioned cider with some residual sweetness so
I rely exclusively on 'natural' yeasts with minimal and judicious
sulphiting just to keep out the Bretts and moulds! The flavours are
certainly more complex and interesting than any I ever got from a
commercial yeast (plus the complex overlay from later malo-lactic
fermentation, of course).
The main yeast that kicks off an unsuphited natural apple fermentation
is Kloeckera apiculata (now known as Hanseniospora valbyensis), followed
later in the succession by S.cerevisiae / uvarum (spp). In some of the
German texts I've read, the 'apiculatus ton' (mostly ethyl acetate?) is
regarded as a positive point. In the French industry it seems that the
complex flavours
associated with a mixed microflora are still highly prized, to the
extent that inoculation with mixed cultures e.g. Metschnikowia
pulcherrima plus S. uvarum is still an active research topic.
There is no answer to the 'perfect yeast' question - it depends on the
kind of cider you want to make. It also depends on how nutrient rich or
poor your juice is - mine are now kept deliberately low in nitrogen. For
me, mixed (but sulphite controlled)
natural microflora is the way to go. For others, the answer will be
quite different.
Andrew Lea,
nr Oxford UK
- ----------------------------------
Visit the Wittenham Hill Cider Page at
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Australian Wine Yeast AWY 350R
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 16:15:35 +0100
Further to my earlier posting, a little digging on the internet reveals
that AWY 350R, as AWRI 350, is available in Australia (dried?) as
Maurivin AWRI 350. See
http://www.spectrellising.com/winery/GGWMNov99.pdf (advert on back
page).
It's also listed in the UK NCYC catalogue as "2695. UCD (1996). ATCC
36029, AWRI 350, UCD 586, Rankine's 350 used commercially in Australia.
Cider production strain." That's interesting since it looks like
University of California at Davis deposited the strain (and in
relatively recent years). According to the cross-referenced ATCC entry
they got it from LARS (who got it from Rankine at AWRI). That's how
yeast collections go - all around the houses!!
The NCYC catalogue also lists "816. A.V.Hood (1974).
AWRI 729. Australian wine yeast ("Epernay yeast"), also used for cider
production. Widely used; low H2S production". Not sure whether this
strain is more commonly known under another name, but Andrew Hood who
deposited the culture was an Australian wine microbiologist who worked
for a while at Long Ashton too.
Note that the NCYC (National Collection of Yeast Cultures) is a
repository of yeast cultures for professional and research
microbiologists. You cannot get commercial quantities from them. (See
http://www.ifr.bbsrc.ac.uk/ncyc/Lager+.html). Most countries have
similar collections e.g. at Australian Wine Research Institute and
University of California at Davis, or the American Type Culture
Collection ATCC (http://www.atcc.org/SearchCatalogs/Fungi_Yeasts.cfm).
The UK and US collections include many beer and industrial spoilage
yeasts - so not of value for cider!
Andrew Lea
http://www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: calories?
From: mike tomlinson <tugger@netreach.net>
Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 19:03:35 -0400
just had a physical and my DR asked if I had any changes in my diet? I
said No but I do drink a pt or 2 of my homemade cider every day. We
both wondered what the calories are in a Pt of cider. Does anyone have
any idea? Or could we consider what medical benefits there might be
from drinking a pt or 2 a day. Consider what it would do for the demand
for our favoite beverage if it was determined to be of benefit or cured
some disease?
thanks
Mike Tomlinson
------------------------------
Subject: French Cider Apples
From: "Richard & Susan Anderson" <baylonanderson@rockisland.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 08:42:59 -0700
We have Medaile d'Or, Michelin and Reine des Pommes in our Westcott Bay
orchard. The Michelin are a easy tree to grow, they train well, crop
annually. The juice is a mild bittersweet. The Reine are also trouble free
and while not biennial, seem to have off years. The juice is a nice full
bittersweet. The Medaile are in their second year and have yet to be
cropped. Our practice is to blend at press time for balance however this
approach provides little insight as to the cider quality that each variety
contributes. Perhaps others have more varietal experience.
Richard Anderson
Westcott Bay Orchards
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End of Cider Digest #975
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