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Cider Digest #0988
From: cider-request@talisman.com
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Subject: Cider Digest #988, 19 August 2002
Cider Digest #988 19 August 2002
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
French cider (Tim Bray)
Re: Cider Digest #983, 29 July 2002 (Sbmwood65@aol.com)
Equipment for cider ("Walt Harris")
My MLF results (Tim Bray)
Cider scion wood (Tim Bray)
keeving (Derek Bisset)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: French cider
From: Tim Bray <tbray@mcn.org>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 20:58:57 -0700
I received some information from a list member who can't seem to post
directly to the Digest. He had recently visited Normandy and discussed
cider making with many of the "cidre-fermiers" of the Pays d'Auge region.
Reading through his summary, it appears that current farm cider making
practice is quite similar to that described in Warcollier (which the
farmers are apparently familiar with). Based on his summary and my own
reading of Warcollier, it seems the critically important points are
Temperature and Flora. The process requires cold temperatures - below 5
degrees Celsius. And it depends on the presence of an active flora of
native yeasts to accomplish the slow, cold fermentation, and then give out
at about 4.5% alcohol (or even less) after multiple rackings.
The temperature can be controlled - we can refrigerate if it isn't
naturally cold enough - but that flora seems to be a matter of locality and
luck. My sporadic attempts at spontaneous fermentation have been
completely unsuccessful. And many people have reported uneven results with
"wild" yeast fermentations. Yet the Normandy style sweet cider simply
cannot be duplicated with wine yeasts, which invariably ferment to dryness
(unless pasteurized or chemically inhibited, both of which adversely affect
the flavor).
The selection of apple varieties to blend receives a great deal of
attention, but the only universal agreement is that you need a blend of
cider apples (sweet, sharp, bitter).
The other facts that struck me are that the cider is sold for about $3 per
bottle (cheap!), and that the cider farms are also dairies:
> These are nearly all dairy farms . With few exceptions milk is
> produced on the same farms as the cider . The cows graze under the apple
> trees and are removed from the orchard in September ; this is camembert
> cheese country after all . The farmers seemed satisfied with their
> return. There were many farms with roadside "cidre fermier" signs and
> they all appeared to be prosperous. I was much impressed with the
> enthusiasm of the producers and their evident pride in their product.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #983, 29 July 2002
From: Sbmwood65@aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 02:11:15 EDT
Scott,
I built a similar unit in my basement in NE Wisconsin. I built a 2x4 frame,
covered in 1/2 plywood and filled the inside areas with 1 1/2" foam board
(the pink stuff). I have doors on it and use it for storage of home made
ciders & cysers. It is just pushed up against one wall of the basement. ( I
did not have a corner to spare.) I consistently see a 4C temperature drop
from the normal basement temp to the inside of the box. I expect your
arrangement to work even better than mine.
Steve
------------------------------
Subject: Equipment for cider
From: "Walt Harris" <wdh@psnw.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:31:38 -0700
For Sale: 1200 +/- gal. tanks, destemmer-crusher, SS barrels, oak barrels,
cold boxes, grinder, press, full fruit line, misc. equipment Located in
Fresno, CA.
For List and Prices, Call Walt @ (559) 439-9500 or email: wdh@psnw.com
[janitor's note: I OK'd this "ad" because it's a short one-time thing.]
------------------------------
Subject: My MLF results
From: Tim Bray <tbray@mcn.org>
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 10:36:24 -0700
Following Andrew's lead, here are my results from inoculation of
experimental batches with a malo-lactic culture. The whole sad story of
this experiment would occupy an entire Digest, so I'll just report on the
malolactic part of it. I used a commercial malolactic culture (Wyeast, I
think) from the local homebrew store. Most of the package was added to a
5-gallon carboy containing a mixture of ciders that had been fermented in
one-gallon batches with Cote des Blancs or London ale yeast; I also added
about a tablespoon of grape tannin to this batch. A small amount of the ML
culture (maybe 2 tablespoons) was added to a separate one-gallon batch.
Conditions when ML culture was added:
4/22/02
1-gal: SG 1.000 TA 0.68% (as tartaric) Brilliantly clear; Insipid, sour
taste
5-gal: SG 1.000 TA 0.71% Clear,amber color; Harsh, sourish taste
Current conditions:
8/18/02
1-gal: TA 0.45% Smoky aroma and taste; thin, insipid, slightly sour; Clear
5-gal: TA 0.55% Sour, harsh; off flavor; slightly cloudy
So the MLF reduced the total acidity by about one-third in the 1-gal batch,
and by about one quarter in the 5-gal batch. The reason for the poor
result in the 5-gal is clear: too much acetic acid! I think this batch is a
total loss. There is probably some acetic in the 1-gal batch as well, but
it might still be drinkable. The smoky nose is distinctive and pleasant -
without the acetic, this would probably have been a good cider.
One other thing to notice is that the sediment in both cases is very fine
and easily disturbed, requiring a lot of care during bottling; it takes a
long time to settle back out. ML bacteria apparently do not flocculate
like yeasts!
I'm presenting this information on the theory that we can learn from our
failures as well as our successes! The chief lesson from this experiment is
that waiting too long to press can be disastrous. (The ciders were pressed
in February, from apples that were ripe in November-December.) The MLF
worked, but only on the malic - it cannot correct a vinegary cider. The
smoky nose is an interesting result and I am going to try this again this
fall with better ciders. (I hope!)
Cheers,
Tim
------------------------------
Subject: Cider scion wood
From: Tim Bray <tbray@mcn.org>
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 10:56:13 -0700
> My next goal is to
>develop a premium quality cidery in the European style. There is a huge
>interest in the growth of winemaking in the area..but this is APPLE
>country!
>Rainbows End Farms and Orchards
Good for you! Living out here in CA, I am sick of watching old established
orchards being ripped out to make room for more wine grapes. (Not to
mention the old oak forests...) But that's where the money is, apparently.
Dick has started a list of suppliers:
http://www.talisman.com/cider/sources/index.html
I have had good experience with all three of the listed sources. Also
Sonoma Antique Apple Nursery,
http://www.applenursery.com/
Cheers,
Tim
------------------------------
Subject: keeving
From: Derek Bisset <derek_bisset@telus.net>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 19:31:39 +0000
These are notes I made from producers like Etienne Dupont near Vimoutiers
last month. They were most emphatic about not using chemicals.
MAKING A SWEET CIDER
Nearly all cider makers would like to be able to make a sweet cider at
some time. A sweet cider is difficult to make because of the tendency of
yeasts to keep fermenting until all the sugar in an apple juice is
completely used up.
I had long known through reading that the farm cidre makers of
Normandy produced sweet ciders, but expected that modern methods would
have done away with their traditional skills. On a recent visit to
Normandy I was delighted to find out that not only are farmers there still
making cider the traditional way, but that there are large and growing
numbers of them apparently thriving on local sales of the product.
Over time cider makers have tried a variety of fairly unsatisfactory
ways of getting around the difficulty of stopping yeast fermenting while
there is still enough sugar left to give a sweet cider. Bottling the cider
while it is still fermenting and then pasteurising is one obvious way. The
result is a cooked cider with an altered taste unlike the fresh, fruity
taste expected in a cider. Sorbate, derived from mountain ash, will slow
yeast growth. But bottling with sugar still present and adding sorbate
risks an unpleasant flavour from the sorbate. The same can be said of
sweetening with unfermentable artificial sweeteners. A factory method
involves filtration. With a good enough filter, yeast can be removed
before bottling. This can be a dubious method because of the uncertainty
that all the yeast is indeed gone. A few cells left and fermentation can
restart. Some cider makers have tried adding sugar until the yeast can
ferment no more. This results in a high alcohol cider which has its own
problems. I would prefer a low alcohol cider which can be drunk for
refreshment. With any of these methods there is an overall risk of
exploding bottles resulting from continuing fermentation.
On the other hand I talked to several Normandy farmers and each
described a natural process they use which accomplishes the main aim of
bottling a cider with enough sugar still present that the cider stays sweet
and fermentation ceases. It appears to be a careful refinement of the
natural process with no
mechanical or chemical means required.
The cider makers insist on a number of conditions they require in
order for the process to work. The juice must come from local varieties of
apple which are used only for cider making. The work must be done at a
time of the year when the weather is cold. Experience is required to know
when to rack and when to bottle since they use very little assistance from
chemical testing.
These local varieties of cider apple in Normandy are numerous ; I
have heard figures of 750 to 1000 varieties. However 20 or so only are
recommended and commonly planted. Frequin Rouge is the most popular and is
available in this country. From tasting the cider and talking about its
qualities I believe it is worth trying the process with available English
cider apples also since the farmers say that the important point is that
the apples be proper cider apples in the categories of sweet, bitter-sweet
, and sharp present in the right proportions. English cider apples are
available with these same qualities. Many of the English varieties are
Norman in origin anyway.
Late varieties are preferred because the apples must be picked
and stored until cool weather arrives. The temperature must be below 5
degrees Celsius and the apples must be cooled to this point before work can
begin. It is important that the pressed juice be below this temperature
before fermentation.
The apples are washed and put through a crusher. The pulp goes
into a large air operated balloon press. From here on in all equipment is
stainless steel. The implication is that cleanliness is important. There
was disagreement about what happens next. Some farmers insist that the
pulp must rest undisturbed for three or four hours and then be pressed
quickly. Others want a long slow pressing with pressure increased very
gradually over three or four hours.
I could detect very little difference between the ciders produced by either
method.
The next stage appears to be critical. The juice is pumped
into very large stainless tanks, a thousand liters or so, and left to
rest in cool conditions. Nothing is added, not even sulphites although
the tanks will have been sterilised with sulphites. The juice now rests for
about a week. Near the end of this time it is checked for the formation
of a chapeau brun. The chapeau brun is a cap which forms on top of the
juice. It is a thick layer. I saw hand indications of a thickness of 12
inches or more on these very large tanks. There are also deposits which
settle in the bottom of the tank and the juice becomes relatively clear. It
is important when this juice is drawn off at the end of this week's
rest that the cap and the base deposits are left behind. Notice that no
yeast has been added.
The juice is then pumped into another large, closed
stainless tank and fermentation is allowed to begin with no added yeast.
There appears to be a feeling amongst the farmers that each one has his own
strain of yeast resident in the cider works and each is proud of the
distinctive character this yeast will give his cider. A very long, slow
fermentation is encouraged. In one case, apples crushed in November last
year produced cider which was only bottled in July this year. The cider may
be racked off the lees two, three, four times, this being a matter of
experience and judgement and again contributing to distinctive character.
This is very much in contrast to our usual fermentations which can be over
in a few weeks in warm conditions.
The decision about the exact moment to bottle appears to
be critical and is determined by experience although I did hear hydrometer
readings of 1020 to 1025 being mentioned. If I bottled at gravities like
those I would be creating explosive bottles. They say that more important
than hydrometer readings was the achievement of the correct balance of
sweetness, bitterness and acidity. In other words a farmer knows it is
time to bottle when the cider tastes right. Since the cider makers are
mostly third, fourth and fifth generation on the same farm that taste has
clearly been established by experience over some time. One of the cider
makers told me that he is experimenting with creating a distinctive taste
recognizable as his brand. The main variable he is using is different apple
varieties. He wants to end up with a half dozen or so varieties giving a
distinctive, repeatable taste. In general between five and nine
varieties seem to go into each cider and a farmer may produce two or three
different ciders.
At this point the cider is about 4.7 % alcohol and tastes quite
sweet. It is generally consumed in the year it is produced.
The cider is now considered stable and is stored in champagne style
bottles in cool cellars to be sold directly off the farm or through local
stores for about 3 euros per bottle. Some is exported, but none to BC
although we have had it in LCB stores in the past occasionally. One
producer told me that he has some go through an agent to Seattle stores.
These are nearly all dairy farms. With few exceptions milk is
produced on the same farms as the cider. The cows graze under the apple
trees and are removed from the orchard in September ; this is camembert
cheese country after all. The farmers seemed satisfied with their return.
There were many farms with roadside "cidre fermier" signs and they all
appeared to be prosperous. I was much impressed with the enthusiasm of the
producers and their evident pride in their product. They are particularly
proud of the fact that they were given official recognition with AOC status
in 1996, putting them alongside important wine areas like Burgundy or
Champagne.
Interesting too is that there is still a tradition of making
pear cider with special cider pear varieties and similar methods.
The region I visited is called the Pays d'Auge and extends
around and south from Lisieux in Normandy. The region is named for the old
method of crushing apples using a circular trough and crushing wheel.
There is a cider route that can be driven for tasting.
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #988
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