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Cider Digest #0960
From: cider-request@talisman.com
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To: cider-list@talisman.com
Subject: Cider Digest #960, 1 April 2002
Cider Digest #960 1 April 2002
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
apple juice concentrate (jimf)
E.coli references (Andrew Lea)
Re: cider and e. coli (Terence L Bradshaw)
The Warcollier Book in translation (Andrew Lea)
Perry Pears (Rcapshew@aol.com)
Pinciples and Practices of Cider-Making ("Awdey, Gary")
New Cider Maker!! (Andrew Lea)
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Subject: apple juice concentrate
From: jimf <jimf@htn.net>
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:25:56 -0500
Greetings from Florida, (we don't grow apples).
Being a cider newbie and not having access to fresh juice I'm wondering
if I can substitute apple concentrate reconstituted? My local super
market carries one with just apple juice, malic acid and acetic acid (
vitamin C ) and another brand with apple juice, water, and ascorbic
acid. Will either of those acids hamper fermentation? Or is there
another way to go?
Thanks
Jim Fitch
The Ridge, Florida's Heartland
------------------------------
Subject: E.coli references
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 12:23:23 +0100
> Subject: Re: cider and e. coli
> From: Marc Montefusco <mmontefusco@newworldcider.com>
> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 07:59:14 -0500
>
> To Terry Bradshaw:
>
> Can you point us to the study(ies) which show the effect of fermentation on
> bacterial populations? I have been asserting this point to various
> parties without being able to prove it.
I have a list of key references which I will e-mail as a text file to
anyone who contacts me off-list.
Andrew
- ----------------------------------
Visit the Wittenham Hill Cider Page at
http://www.cider.org.uk OR
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea
------------------------------
Subject: Re: cider and e. coli
From: Terence L Bradshaw <madshaw@innevi.com>
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 12:12:26 -0500
>Can you point us to the study(ies) which show the effect of fermentation on
>bacterial populations? I have been asserting this point to various
>parties without being able to prove it.
Authors: Semanchek JJ. Golden DA.
Title: SURVIVAL OF ESCHERICHIA COLI O157-H7 DURING FERMENTATION OF APPLE CIDER
Source: Journal of Food Protection. 59(12):1256-1259, 1996 Dec.
Abstract: Survival of Escherichia coli O157:H7 in fermenting and
nonfermenting fresh apple cider was determined. Populations of E. coli
O157:H7 were reduced from 6.4 log CFU/ml to undetectable levels (detection
limit of 0.5 log CFU/ml) in fermenting cider after 3 days at 20 degrees C
and from 6.5 log CFU/ml to 2.9 log CFU/ml after 10 days at 20 degrees C in
nonfermenting cider. After 1 day of incubation, recovery of E. coli O157:H7
from fermenting and nonfermenting cider was statistically (P < 0.01) lower
on sorbitol MacConkey agar than on tryptone soya agar supplemented with
cycloheximide. These results suggest that substantial portions of the
surviving E. coli O157:H7 populations were sublethally injured by cider
components (i.e., acid and ethanol). The pH of fermenting cider was not
significantly different (P > 0.05) from that of nonfermenting cider
throughout the 10-day test period. Final ethanol concentrations in
fermenting cider reached 6.01% (vol/vol) after 10 days at 20 degrees C.
Inactivation of E. coli O157:H7 in fermenting cider is attributed to the
combined effects of pH and ethanol. Results of this study indicate that E.
coli O157:H7 is capable of survival in fresh apple cider at 20 degrees C,
while alcoholic fermentation of fresh cider is an effective means of
destroying this pathogen.
Dr. Ian Merwin at Cornell (and on this list, I believe) could also help
one to find further sources, I believe.
TB
Terence Bradshaw
Pomona Tree Fruit Service
93 Stowe St
Waterbury, VT 05676
(802)244-0953
madshaw@innevi.com
The views represented by me are mine and mine only................
------------------------------
Subject: The Warcollier Book in translation
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 18:37:43 +0000
To help people in locating loan copies, the full reference to the book is
as follows:
"The Principles and Practice of Cider-Making by Vernon L.S. Charley B.Sc,
Ph.D (late of University of Bristol Agricultural and Horticultural Research
Station, Long Ashton), assisted by Pamela M. Mumford.
"With 36 Tables and 86 Illustrations.
"[A translation of the third and last edition (1928) of La Cidrerie by
Professor G. Warcollier, late Director of the Pomological Research Station,
Caen. Published in the Encyclopedie Agricole series by J-B Bailliere et
Fils, Paris].
"Published in London by Leonard Hill Ltd., 17 Stratford Place W1, 1949.
367 pages.
There is no ISBN since it was long before the days of such things.
The translator / author (Vernon Charley) was a chemist who had been head of
the Long Ashton Cider section during the 1930's and the war years. He made
such a success of the Government-inspired plan to develop a blackcurrant
syrup rich in Vitamin C (to substitute for the citrus fruit which could not
be imported in wartime) that in 1948 he was lured away from academia to be
the Technical Director of the new Royal Forest Factory set up by the
Bristol soft drinks firm of HW Carter in the Gloucestershire Forest of Dean
(not far from Bristol) and to market the product commercially as 'Ribena'..
When Charley completed the book he was already in post with Carters.
Carters were taken over by Beechams, Beechams merged with Smithkline and
then last year with Glaxo to form GSK. But Charley's Royal Forest Factory
still exists and is the centre of the GSK soft drinks operation within
their consumer healthcare division. I thought some of you might appreciate
the history!=20
Andrew Lea nr Oxford UK
www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Perry Pears
From: Rcapshew@aol.com
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 21:57:58 EST
I got a copy of Perry Pears by Luckwill &
Pollard in 2000 from the following address:
IACR-Long Ashton Research Station
Dept. of Agricultural Sciences
University of Bristol
Long Ashton, Bristol
BS41 9AF
UK
email - Christine.Cooke@bbsrc.ac.uk
The cost was 25 pounds sterling post
paid. The book is excellent and has
several color prints.
Bob Capshew
------------------------------
Subject: Pinciples and Practices of Cider-Making
From: "Awdey, Gary" <gary.awdey@bethsteel.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 07:52:20 -0500
John L. Emmett located a copy of Vernon L.S. Charley's 1949 translation of
Georges Warcollier's La Ciderie last summer (Cider Digest #909). I was the
lucky recipient of the extra copy he made, but I was able to track down
where he found it in case you want to duplicate his efforts of borrowing it
and making a copy (much better than making a copy of a copy). Since it's
obviously still in demand, it would be a good idea to make several extra
copies. It's available via interlibrary loan from the South Dakota State
University Library. It is listed under Charley's title of The Principles
and Practices of Cider-Making , but lists Warcollier as the author. The
library catalog lists the location in the stacks as TP563.W37p. Your local
public librarian should be able to request it for you.
Also, for those who missed Ciders Digest #954 and are still looking for the
Long Ashton book Perry Pears edited by Luckwill & Pollard, try contacting
Mrs. Christine Cooke at Long Ashton (christine.cooke@bbsrc.ac.uk). It was
available last year for 25 Pounds (about $35 US).
Gary Awdey
Eden, NY
------------------------------
Subject: New Cider Maker!!
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 13:54:11 +0100
Carroyln wrote:
> The primary fermentation went
> well. I transferred the ferment out of the primary fermenter about 3 weeks
> ago and put an airlock on for the malo-lactic fermentation. At first it
> seemed to be excreting CO2 but then stopped.
> ...it has been in the downstairs hall at about 17-18
> degrees, but has not bubbled CO2 out the air lock yet ( it has been about 2
> weeks). Is this normal? Do you use two fermentation vessels for cider
I think you may be assuming too much here! Once a cider has finished
its main yeast fermentation, there is no guarantee that it will undergo
a malo-lactic fermentation immediately afterwards or indeed that it will
ever do one at all!. Whether it does so depends on a host of
ill-understood factors such as level of bacterial inoculum, pH, level of
sulphite added, levels of nutrients left over from yeast etc etc.
My advice is to keep it under airlock but wait until at least June to
see whether or not anything happens (traditional UK ciders start
fermenting in October and tend to go MLF in May/June). Alternatively you
could try adding an inoculum of winemakers ML culture. In any case, MLF
is often very slow and the gas production slight, so the airlock may
show you nothing. More reliable is to follow the titratable acidity
every two weeks or so, or to do a TLC test (see the discussions at the
end of last year in Digest #937 to #941 for more on MLF and testing).
But be prepared for the fact that MLF may never happen at all!
And yes I would normally use two vessels and rack off the gross lees
after the yeast fermentation is mostly finished (say SG 1.005),
but then leave the cider on its new crop of lees for several months.
The received wisdom is that yeast autolysis releases nutrients back
into the cider which then encourage MLF to take place.
Andrew Lea, nr Oxford, UK
- ----------------------------------
Visit the Wittenham Hill Cider Page at
http://www.cider.org.uk OR
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #960
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