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Cider Digest #0990
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Subject: Cider Digest #990, 28 August 2002
Cider Digest #990 28 August 2002
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Pays d'Auge apples and cidre (Derek Bisset)
Blending - something completely different? (David Pickering)
The best pH meters? (Andrew Lea)
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Subject: Pays d'Auge apples and cidre
From: Derek Bisset <derek_bisset@telus.net>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 21:39:58 -0700
I visited a traditional display orchard at Le Sap and picked up a list of
the apple varieties they have planted.
Frequin Rouge is at the top of the list - no reference to which strain .
Following that in the course of discussion with the head of the cidre
producers co-op at Vimoutiers I had him go over the list and indicate which
varieties they used . He has Frequin Rouge double marked and Calard
underlined. He has twenty other varieties single checked and another seven
or eight marked "non". I grow a Frequin Rouge imported directly from
Normandy (by another grower) five or six years ago. In the course of
discussion with another farm producer I mentioned Frequin Rouge he
indicated vigorously that it was an important variety for the area. Neither
of the producers appeared to have heard of Kermerrien , also on the list ,
but a Breton variety I believe.
None of this clears up the possibility that there is more than one strain
of Frequin Rouge .
It is a " douce amere" variety to the producers in Normandy and they
emphasized that this quality is what is important for the distinctive
quality of their cider . When I taste the apple from my own trees, it is
strongly bittersweet , I did not establish whether this quality had
anything to do with creation of chapeau brun and the subsequent slowing of
fermentation .
I did ask the two farm producers about chemical additions ,with calcium
chloride in mind . I don't think my translator quite stretched to calcium
chloride . But the "no additions" was quite definite. "Not even sulphites"
"Only for sterilizing the equipment and storage tanks "
These are the farmers who grow their apples "haut tige'" , high grafted so
that the cattle can graze under them . The co-op head appeared quite
surprised that anyone would grow "basse tige" or intensive and have no grazing.
I had an evening's discussion with a very sophisticated major producer
near Beuvron , M Dupont , who does just that , exporting 80% of his cider ,
some to the US . He has an intensive orchard he says because "you can smell
the cattle in the cider" He also said something which I believe relates to
Andrew's point about nitrogen . He has no animals to graze the grass and
lower the nitrogen level in his fruit . "The soil of Normandy is rich " he
said . "That is a problem. It is necessary to keep the apples small for
good cider .The trees must be starved . They must not be fertilized " The
trees in his orchard were semi dwarf thickly planted as far as I could see.
Lots of questions. Not enough time . But as M Dupont said about learning
to produce good cider "We must do it . We can't rely on anyone else ' I
think he was referring to researchers and technicians ,
These people are very proud of what they do and of the quality of their
product. My research sample is very small but they are delighted to talk to
someone with an interest in their product . They shared their knowledge
with humour and enthusiasm and a glass of what I consider superb cider.
------------------------------
Subject: Blending - something completely different?
From: David Pickering <davidp@netwit.net.au>
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 20:45:13 +1000
I haven't explored the Digest archives - joining at 796 - so hope this
wasn't discussed ad nauseum up to 795.
When discussion comes up about varietals vs blends I realise that I know
very little about blending. Rightly or wrongly, I have from the
beginning of my cider making activities either made varietals or have
blended apples and made a blended cider.
In talking to a local winemaker last season, initially with me bemoaning
my loss of cider apples to white cockatoos (parrots) the subject came
around to blending. I was asked how I decided on a blend and replied
that I tried to incorporate some or all of the different cider apple
classes based on experience and a perception of what I wanted in the
particular batch. To say the winemaker was stunned is perhaps to
understate the case.
The comparable wine procedure was explained to me as being the
fermentation of single variety batches followed by the blending of
'finished' wines to give a blend to the winemakers taste (or the
perceived market's taste). Sounded a sensible approach and I found on
closer reading of cider books that there are occasional mentions of this
approach but without much in the way of guidance.
Have I therefore been missing something that this aspect doesn't get
talked about because it comes under the heading of subjective
preferences? Alternatively, have other Digest cider makers been doing as
I do and only blending apples?
David Pickering 'Linden Lea' Orange NSW 2800 Australia
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Subject: The best pH meters?
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 11:53:41 +0100
Different models of pH meter are available in different parts of the
world so a recommendation would tend to be very country specific (even
though they're probably all made in the same factories in Asia!). Here
in the UK you can get something perfectly adequate for cidermaking for
30 UKP or so. But don't use the garden or the swimming pool type -
these are not sensitive enough and cover the wrong range anyway.
Whatever model is used, the most important thing is to keep the
electrode clean and it must be calibrated to pH 4 every time before
use. This is so tedious for occasional use that I now tend to use
narrow range pH strips (e.g. Merck Cat No 31501 which covers pH 2.5 -
4.5 in 0.3 pH steps). Good enough for most cidermaking purposes, and
avoids having to calibrate a meter if you only need to make one
measurement. But I think the 100 strips cost about the same as a cheap
pH meter.
Also don't forget, pH is not the only measurement of acid that a
scientific cidermaker needs to make. Titratable acidity in % malic is
at least as important and should also be measured. You really need both
figures to make any sense of things, IMHO.
Andrew Lea, UK
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End of Cider Digest #990
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