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Cider Digest #0987
From: cider-request@talisman.com
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Subject: Cider Digest #987, 14 August 2002
Cider Digest #987 14 August 2002
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Tree care recommendations (Michael Vezie)
Keeving ("McGonegal, Charles")
New article ("chris horn")
Keeving near Puget Sound (DrewZimmer@aol.com)
Tannin addition (James.Luedtke@cgiusa.com)
Literature re: French Cider esp. Methode Champenoise ("Mark Ellis")
European cider scion wood wanted for Spring 2003 ("lisa walker")
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Subject: Tree care recommendations
From: Michael Vezie <mlv@pobox.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 11:27:13 -0400
I'm buying a house soon (first time owning a house, *gulp*). Anyway,
it has a large (taller than the two story house) apple tree in the
back yard. I know next to nothing about taking care of trees; I don't
even know what kind of apple tree this is, just that it is well-laden
with lots of small yellowish-colored apples (size of a small fist).
I was at the house on Saturday and noticed apples starting to fall; does
that mean they're ripe? They tasted somewhat tart.
Do people on this list have any recommendations on how I can learn more
about it? What problems it may have that need addressing (pests, etc),
and what my options are for it (pruning, grafting, etc). I figure I can
either get a book and start reading about it, or maybe hire someone (an
arborist?) who can look at the tree and give me some specific recommendations.
Or maybe both?
I plan on using the apples in recipes (apple sauce, etc), and maybe
for making cider, but I can't imagine one tree giving me enough of
a yield by itself (and if my suspicions are true, I'd almost certainly
want some kind of a mix to balance the flavor).
There are other trees on the property that need some attention; a maple
tree that's right on the edge of the foundation that probably has to go,
a cherry tree (I think) that doesn't seem to be doing anything at all,
and a large oak tree in the front yard. So my interest is not only with
the apple tree.
And FYI, the house is in Boston, MA.
Michael
------------------------------
Subject: Keeving
From: "McGonegal, Charles" <cpmcgone@uop.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 10:31:13 -0500
Tim Bray wrote:
>I haven't tried it yet, but the information in Warcollier is confusing, and
>Andrew Lea's experimental results seemed to indicate that a certain enzyme
>had a significant effect. I would really like to hear from someone who has
>done this with juice from American apples.
I've almost always acheived a 'brown cap' in my cider fermentations. Since
I ferment to dryness with a champagne yeast, I don't bother racking the must
out from underneath it and let it turn over to the foamy 'white cap'.
I had always wondered what the mysterious 'keeving' was until I got my hands
on a copy of the translated Warcollier. Now I'm puzzled why I see it so
often.
I have a hypothesis that it's very dependent on both good pectinase activity
and having lots of ripe pectins. I use a fraction of Cortlands ripened to
the point where pressing is difficult - they get very slippery. But I
suspect that those extra pectins, along with a fermentation that starts
slowly, go a long way to succussfully keeving the cider.
------------------------------
Subject: New article
From: "chris horn" <agent_strangelove@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 10:18:59 -0700
Does any one know of a source of reference to crab apples? I recently
bought property with a crab apple in the yard (in addition to the normal
apples). I would like to figure out what they are before I try to ferment
with them. Is there something comparable to 'Apples of New York' for crab
apples? They are fully red and about 1" in dia. I think that they are as
ripe as they are going to get. So they are early... For seasonal
comparison, my red gravenstien is starting to drop fruit.
Thanks
Chris Horn
Scappoose Oregon
In 1600 the German Order of Temperance, an anti-drinking group, mandated
that its members drink no more than seven glasses of alcoholic beverages at
one sitting. They further admonished that there should be no more than two
such sessions in one day.
My sort of temperance...
------------------------------
Subject: Keeving near Puget Sound
From: DrewZimmer@aol.com
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 15:41:35 EDT
Tim Bray wrote:
You keeve successfully? Tell us more, please! What varieties, do you
macerate, do you use additives? What temperature?
I didn't say "successful " keeving, at least not always, but the cider lately
has been excellent. I follow Andrew Lea's directions and have achieved
"chapeau brun" a few times. I macerate the pumace up to 24 hours prior to
pressing, although after reading Warcollier, I may cut that down a bit
depending on apple tannin content. Calcium Chloride is added to the juice
and it goes in the frig. at 38-40F and sits until either a white or brown cap
develops. I'm not a big fan of sulfites or cultured yeast and if the chapeau
brun does not form before fermentation starts, I rack the juice off the
sediment and proceed with normal fermentation. I monitor juice acidity, both
pH and total acidity. pH should be under 4.0 for healthy cider and mine
seems to range from 3.4 to 4.0. The total acidity determines how acidic the
cider will taste and I shoot for 0.5% to 0.7% max., 0.55-0.6% is very much to
my liking. I'll add Calcium Carbonate if the TA is over 0.7%, although after
reading Andrew's piece on MLF, I may go that way with an over acid batch. I
believe the extra steps of maceration and keeving, even if not successful,
always produce superior cider. Also, natural yeast produce fruity esters and
floral characters that I have never experienced in cider fermented with
cultured yeast. Here's a tip: spread the lees from the best batches of cider
on the orchard grounds to promote consistant microflora.
Of course, the choice of apples is very important. I use about 20-30% bitter
apples (sweets and sharps) both French and British, and the balance of the
blend is "gourmet" apples like Ashmead's Kernel, Karmijn de Sonneville,
Golden Harvey, Freyberg, etc. I also add as many russets as I can get my
hands on. Ripeness is critical, the apples must be perfectly ripe. When my
own trees (I have 50 dwarfs) are ready, I shake them every day and pick up
only what's fallen. Other apples I get are from a friend's orchard and I
help with the harvest. I sweat the apples in boxes and tubs and try to grind
and press at their peak (the Karmijns are best after Christmas). The higher
the flavor in the apple, the better the taste in the cider. I don't use many
wimpy flavored Liberties, Golden Delicious or Galas.
Drew Zimmerman, Seattle
Puget Sound is cider apple heaven
------------------------------
Subject: Tannin addition
From: James.Luedtke@cgiusa.com
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 17:12:42 -0400
In digest #986, Andrew Lea writes, "North America must be stuffed full of
wild Sorbus and Prunus species whose fruits could be used. Time for you guys
to get experimenting."
I heartily agree, there are many domesticated and wild fruit juices we can
try out. The only Sorbus species in North America I could find in a brief
internet search, was Mountain Ash, which I doubt is suitable for any kind of
human consumption. As for the Prunus species, we have several that are
widespread throughout the continent, particularly chokecherry (Prunus
virginiana), and wild black cherry (Prunus serotina). I do not have the
wherewithall to test them for tannin, but they do have that 'setting the
teeth on edge' quality that I associate with high tannin. As with most wild
fruits, obtaining significant quantities of the cherry juices takes a fair
amount effort, but can be rewarding for jellies, why not for cider? I've
been making cider for 6 years, and I think one of the best batches was that
which included some wild black cherry juice.
For those that experiment with these two cherries, add the juice only, and
don't allow the pits to break up. Apparently, leaves, twigs and pits from
these two contain cyanide compounds that you really don't want in your
cider.
No doubt there are other fruits we could try as well - for example,
blackberry is purported to be high in tannin.
Nevertheless, I eagerly await the day my Yarlington Mills, Chisel Jerseys,
etc., begin producing in quantity!
------------------------------
Subject: Literature re: French Cider esp. Methode Champenoise
From: "Mark Ellis" <mark@artisansrus.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 20:32:11 +1000
G'day Folks,
I am chasing down some sources of literature on French
(Normandy) Cider Styles and Production, and thought I would
be best served by tapping into the collective brains trust
here. Anyone know where I should start looking.
Appreciate your help.
Mark E. in Oz
****** http://www.Artisansrus.com *******
Promoting the Ancient Fermentable Arts
*******************************************
------------------------------
Subject: European cider scion wood wanted for Spring 2003
From: "lisa walker" <rainbowsend@swva.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 08:19:41 -0700
We are a small family owned farm in the Blueridge mountains of southwest
Virginia. Currently we have Dexter and Angus cattle, Border Leicester
and Corriedale sheep, Boer and Tennessee goats, berries, and an orchard
of apples, peaches, plums, cherries, and pears. My next goal is to
develop a premium quality cidery in the European style. There is a huge
interest in the growth of winemaking in the area..but this is APPLE
country!
Rainbows End Farms and Orchards
880 Central Academy Road
Stuart, Virginia 24171
276-694-4324
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End of Cider Digest #987
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