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Cider Digest #0957
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Errors-To: cider-errors@talisman.com
Reply-To: cider@talisman.com
To: cider-list@talisman.com
Subject: Cider Digest #957, 19 March 2002
Cider Digest #957 19 March 2002
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
List of cider/perry tree sources (Cider Digest)
French cidermaking sources ("Benjamin Watson")
Scionwood Request: Perry Pear "Rock" ("McGonegal, Charles")
Vintage Cider Presses (Terry Maloney)
Re: Walt Harris request for French technical information ("Bill Rhyne")
C.D.#955 ("stevfn jackson")
Ellis Bitter in Australia? ("Mark Ellis")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: List of cider/perry tree sources
From: cider@talisman.com (Cider Digest)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:50:23 -0700 (MST)
I've started the list of sources for cider-apple/perry-pear trees, as
mentioned in digest 955. So far there are just two entries. See
www.talisman.com/cider/sources
or start at
www.talisman.com/cider
and read there if you want more context.
As I'd realized, it's slow to get this going and it's relatively late in
the year for this. So this is more like a trial run, and I'll see if we
can't get more listings for next year.
(For the southern hemisphere, it would be a good time to start gathering
info!)
___
Cider Digest cider-request@talisman.com
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor Boulder County, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: French cidermaking sources
From: "Benjamin Watson" <bwatson@monad.net>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:34:37 -0500
> I am interested in producing hand-crafted quality cider using the
> methods employed by the French. So far, I have been unable to find much
> detailed information; and, very little technical data on their cider
> making methods.
The best French source I've used in my research has been Georges
Warcollier's "The Principles and Practice of Cidermaking" (London: Leonard
Hill, 1949). This is the English translation of the 3rd edition (1928) of
Warcollier's original French work "La Cidrerie". Lots of good material in
this thorough book.
Though it galls me to recommend my "competition," there is a good three-page
step-by-step overview of the French cidermaking process in Proulx and
Nichols' book "Cider" (Storey, 1997). It's concise and useful, but IMHO
makes keeving sound much simpler and straightforward in theory than it
actually may prove in practice for amateurs.
Ben Watson
------------------------------
Subject: Scionwood Request: Perry Pear "Rock"
From: "McGonegal, Charles" <cpmcgone@uop.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:00:39 -0600
Do any cider-digest readers know of someone in the US growing the perry pear
"Rock"?
I'm posting to the digest because the National Germplasm Repository @
Corvalis doesn't seem to have this particular cultivar.
Thanks
Charles McGonegal
AEppelTreow Winery
cpm@aeppeltreow.com
------------------------------
Subject: Vintage Cider Presses
From: Terry Maloney <terry@westcountycider.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:27:36 -0500
If you have, or know of anyone who has, a vintage cider press, and might
be interested in putting it on display at the 8th Annual Cider Day,
November 2nd & 3rd, 2002 in Colrain, Massachusetts please let me know.
Terry Maloney
West County Cider
PO 29
Colrain, MA 01340
terry@westcountycider.com
413 624 23481
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Walt Harris request for French technical information
From: "Bill Rhyne" <rhyne@wli.net>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:47:41 -0800
Re: French cider making information
Regarding Walt Harris' request for technical information on French
cidermaking methods, he may want to search a local ag university library for
"The Principles and Practice of Cider Making" by Vernon Charley, Leonard
Hill Limited, 17 Stratford Place, 1949 London. Charley translated "La
Cidrerie" by Prof. G. Warcollier (of France). It is cery comprehensive with
lots of different methods discussed, chemical make-up of apples, etc. My
sister-in-law, Benedicte Rhyne, is French and we were able to find the
original French version and the translation at UC-Davis where we copied the
chapters relevant to our needs. That text with Andrew Lea's writings got us
on our way.
We started though by tasting many ciders before we focused in on French
Style ciders so we knew what we were shooting for. We then evaluated the
apples available to us in Sonoma County by taste and chemical analysis to
match the profiles of our apples to cider apple profiles in England and
France. We have evaluated about 16 varieties so far. Personal preference and
customer feed back lead us to making a semi-dry sparkling style cider which
is somewhat similar to the Normandy or Breton style ciders. We finish
fermenting in the bottle to achieve natural sparkle and aroma development.
In France, we read that in order to achive a semi-dry taste, they will rack
the cider until the fermentation is arrested. We also read that we could
achieve this by bottle pasteurization. When we were starting our project in
1995-1996, there was the Odwalla-e.coli issue so pasteurization was also
important from a customer acceptance stand point, even though we are not
producing apple juice. For us, the product is stable for flavor, shipping,
and shelf-life purposes after our method of pasteurization. We are not
worried about e.coli as we use high acid, low pH, washed apples and the
tannin, acidity, alcohol, and CO2 pressure prevent e.coli from developing.
We experimented with yeasts but settled on innoculating with white wine/cha
mpagne yeasts to maintain consistent results.
While we are not necessarily setting the world on fire in the market place,
we are getting some critical success with our product. We are still small
producers. Last year, we were invited to send some cider to an international
cider exposition in Rennes, France so we sent a case. We were told that of
all of the international ciders that were present, our cider came the
closest to the style of cider found in that area of Brittany. So I guess it
helps to have a French sister-in-law with a masters in enology and a French
palate. As we go on further, we may find that we develop our own personal
style of cider that achieves our goals. But we started from the French
methods and Sonoma apples.
I hope that this helps out.
Take care.
Bill Rhyne
bill@rhynecyder.com
http://www.rhynecyder.com
------------------------------
Subject: C.D.#955
From: "stevfn jackson" <magicyder@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 18:52:02 -0800
Just a few comments regarding the North American Fruit Explorers (NAFEX). As
a longtime Nafexer, I relish the chance to clarify and maybe even plug NAFEX
a little seeing as NAFEX is the single best resource for fruit- growing
beginners to learn about growing fruit.
I am confident the esteemed Cider Digest Janitor spoke innocously when
expressing his unwillingness to "compete with NAFEX". Nafexers are folks
from Everytown, USA who have joined together in the quest for excellent
fruit, and it seems to me Cider Digesters (C.D.ers) just might be happy with
the same thing (to make cider with). There are many a Nafexer who are good
growers, good cidermakers,and good C.D.ers.
It's unfortunate that more C.D.ers who are interested in growing cider or
perry trees don't know about NAFEX and what it has to offer: 1. Outstanding
lending library (books by mail). 2.'Pomona', the excellent quarterly,offers
a broad,oft eclectic variety of articles from fellow fruit growers.
3.Electronic resources such as NAFEX on line--a round robin Q+ A, nursery
and scion sources, related sites, and much much more.
If you need accurate "tech help" with questions about fruit culture, go to
NAFEX (w.w.w.nafex.org).Have I said the word NAFEX 20 times yet?
'Nuff said. Check it out, it's good stuff,and good people.
Steve Jackson <magicyder@hotmail.com>
[Janitor's note: When I said "no, I'm not trying to compete with NAFEX", it
was a deliberate understatement! NAFEX is a very active organization, lots
going on in many areas. I'll second Steve's suggestion to check it out.
All I'm doing with the little list I've set up is trying to give cider folks
an easy way to find cider apple trees.]
------------------------------
Subject: Ellis Bitter in Australia?
From: "Mark Ellis" <mark@artisansrus.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 17:57:47 +1100
G'day,
Do any Aussie cidermakers on the list know if Ellis Bitter wood is available in
Australia. Thought it might be sort of nice to grow and produce a little bit of
namesake cider.
Cheers
Mark Ellis in Oz
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #957
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