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Cider Digest #0973
From: cider-request@talisman.com
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Subject: Cider Digest #973, 31 May 2002
Cider Digest #973 31 May 2002
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
"horse blanket" = Brettanomyces ("Pat Maloney")
malo vs brett, cider from sweet ("Dave Burley")
Re: Cider Digest #972, 27 May 2002 ("John A. Ray")
oooh, ropy (eli+@gs211.sp.cs.cmu.edu)
Checklists ("Mark Ellis")
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Subject: "horse blanket" = Brettanomyces
From: "Pat Maloney" <pmaloney@callatg.com>
Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 09:57:44 -0700
In the recent discussion re: wood in cider, David Burley seems to suggest
that malolactic fermentation is responsible for the "horse blanket" taste in
some Bordeaux and Burgundies.
> Why is this? Contamination. Wood is porous and a great site for bacterial
> and mold growth as anyone who has used oak barrrels for wine knows. Even
> with the higher alcohol wine, that "horse blanket" taste of malolactic
> fermentation so common ( and expected of older chateaux) flavor of French
> Burgundies and Bordeaux can result from contamination from oak barrels.
And
> that's the good stuff.
Actually, I believe that Brettanomyces yeast is responsible for that
particular barnyard-like characteristic. Malolactic fermentation is often
encouraged in wine making to soften a wine and give it a flavor profile far
different from that of a horse blanket.
An excellent explanation of why wood barrels are such good hosts for
"brett," as it is affectionately known, can be found at the following URL:
http://www.makewine.com/makewine/brett.html
Pat Maloney
------------------------------
Subject: malo vs brett, cider from sweet
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley@charter.net>
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 08:05:41 -0400
Where was my brain when I was commenting on oak barrels being a source of
contamination. I seldom re-read my own writing, but luckily I did this time.
Oak barrels, of course, are a source of contamination for many organisms,
but that "horse blanket" taste is due to Brettanomyces, a wild yeast, and
not malo-lactic fermentation, a lactobacillus infection.
Often these fermentations go in parallel as M-L does not go on in high
sulfite environments nor does Brett. So winemakers who keep the sulfite
down to encourage M-L often have Brett "spoiled" ( but not according to the
French) wines.
Another comment on oak barrels is that they encourage a low level of
oxidation which is good for young tannic wines, but not neessarily for low
tannin ciders, white wines and such. Extraction of oak flavors from
sterilized chips is an alternative some use, as I described.
- ------------------------
Alan,
I suggest you locate or plant some crab apples to blend with your sweet
dessert apples as a start toward a good hard cider blend.
Dave Burley
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #972, 27 May 2002
From: "John A. Ray" <jar18@lamar.colostate.edu>
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 10:36:38 -0600
Re: Alan's "Cider from non-cider apples"
I would try collecting and freezing or fermenting some of the crab
pollenizers from your blocks. I've had fair luck stretching juice from
bland stuff like goldens and reds by adding 10 to 20% crabs in the
blend. Kinda hard to press so I do a primary fermentation on the mashed
fruit...Sulfite!!! If you can find even a few other varieties mix them
in as well...straight Delicious cider tastes...well...like a red
delicious tastes coming from CA storage after a year. Also if you do
your secondary on the oak chips as has been discussed recently, you
might get a little more palatable drink. Or maybe do some "trick" stuff
like carmelizing some of your bland juice?
On another note. More physiology than cider. Has anyone used Promalin
and Latex paint to force bud-break on fresh grafts (two weeks old,
callused and well attached)?
- --
John A. Ray
Research Associate-Floriculture
Colorado State University
Department of Horticulture & Landscape Architecture
111 Shepardson Bldg
Fort Collins CO 80523-1173
970.491.4615 (Office)
970.491.1089 (Lab)
970.491.7745 (FAX)
------------------------------
Subject: oooh, ropy
From: eli+@gs211.sp.cs.cmu.edu
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 23:57:09 -0400 (EDT)
When I tried pouring into a glass this sweet cider I bought at the
supermarket, it behaved very oddly. I haven't seeen ropiness before,
but I believe this is it. Rather nifty really, like cornstarch in
water -- I bet you could isolate the whatever it is
(mucopolysaccharides?) and market them to nine-year-old boys.
- --
Eli Brandt | eli+@cs.cmu.edu | http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~eli/
------------------------------
Subject: Checklists
From: "Mark Ellis" <mark@artisansrus.com>
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 18:14:28 +1000
Hi All,
I am developing a checklist of "must haves" of equipment and so on for the
serious hobby fermenter!. I will, once we are done collecting submissions,
run a rateable survey page so as to create a true sense of the most
essential items that we should look at collecting in our winery/cider
mill/brew house etc. It would be great if everyone contributes to this.
Eventually it will be a part of the finished Artisansrus.com info site. Help
me build you a resource!
My essential items;
Hydrometer
Sodium Metabisulphite
Yeast
Plastic Fermenters
Wine Press
Cider Press
What are yours?
Thanks
Mark E. in Oz
**** http://www.Artisansrus.com ******
Promoting the Ancient Fermentable Arts
**************************************
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End of Cider Digest #973
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