Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Cider Digest #1008
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Errors-To: cider-errors@talisman.com
Reply-To: cider@talisman.com
To: cider-list@talisman.com
Subject: Cider Digest #1008, 7 December 2002
Cider Digest #1008 7 December 2002
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Priming Sparkling Cider to-be ("Hari Arisetty")
WOW - Tastes not so good (DLebeck@aol.com)
Resweetening? and FAQs ("gmarion.dri.edu")
racking (Derek Bisset)
RIBSTON PIPPEN (Dan Spoelstra)
drought resistant apple trees ("Ingels, Dr Stephen")
Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com.
Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests.
When subscribing, please include your name and a good address in the
message body unless you're sure your mailer generates them.
Archives of the Digest are available at www.talisman.com/cider
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Priming Sparkling Cider to-be
From: "Hari Arisetty" <h_arisetty@tcbinc.org>
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 13:05:28 -0500
I finished bottling my first batch of cider (which had sat in the primary
for 4 weeks and then in the secondary for another 4 weeks), and I primed 5
gallons of cider with 3/4 cup of maple syrup. Unfortunately, after two
weeks in the bottle, all I got was a very faint hiss, and nothing else -
the cider was absolutely still. And, there was visible sediment on the
bottom. So, my theories are as follows:
1) not enough priming sugar. I made the assumption that, on a volume
basis, maple syrup (100% maple syrup) had the same amount of fermentable
sugars as the package of priming sugar that I can buy at the brew store.
This may not be true. I made that assumption because the bottle said to
use syrup instead of sugar in recipes, and to replace sugar with the same
volume of syrup.
2) too cold. I put the bottles in my basement, where it is about 60
degrees.
3) not enough yeast. I kind of doubt that 8 weeks in two stages would be
enough to settle all the yeast.
4) Spices killed off the yeast. I added 3/4 cup of mulling spices to the
cider after transferring to the secondary. Man, after sitting around for 4
weeks, the cider definitely picked up some spicy notes, but I doubt that
would kill off the yeast.
5) I didn't cap it correctly. I suppose that's always a possibility.
The fact that there was sediment throws off the yeast inactivity idea, so
we'll see.
Well, I'll update you all in about a month.
Hari
|| Hari Arisetty | Investor Services Manager ||
|| The Community Builders | 617 695 9595 x109 ||
------------------------------
Subject: WOW - Tastes not so good
From: DLebeck@aol.com
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 18:39:53 EST
Well, this was my third batch of cider, and well, frankly it does not taste
all that good. I thought that I would try to use some "mulled" cider and
wyeast sweet mead yeast. This stuff is only two weeks old and already it
tastes nasty. I guess I will just let it go and see just how bad it can get
(LOL). Anyway, I would like to wish everyone a Joyous Holiday.
Douglas Lebeck @ Heartland Farms
------------------------------
Subject: Resweetening? and FAQs
From: "gmarion.dri.edu" <gmarion@dri.edu>
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 04:10:20 -0800
Hi Brian: It is possible to resweeten dry cider. I do it all the time
with "wine conditioner." You can purchase this at a wine store and
follow their directions or make it up yourself. My recipe includes 2
cups of sugar, 1 cup of water, and 1 tbl of potassium sorbate. Bring
everything to a boil, cool, and use as needed. I would also add 1/4 tsp
of potassium metabisulfite or 3 campden tablets to 5 gallons to insure
against malolactic fermentation.
The above question and others like "My cider is too tart. What can
I do about it? " are frequently asked in Cider Digest. Frequent
replies to the same question get tiring after awhile. I wonder if
someone highly knowledgable could come up "definite" answers to
frequently asked questions (FAQs) and post them somewhere on the
Internet, where we could direct the questioner, rather than rely on the
good-will of readers. Regards, Giles.
- --
Dr. Giles M. Marion
Earth and Ecosystem Sciences
Desert Research Institute 775-673-7349 (phone)
2215 Raggio Parkway 775-673-7485 (fax)
Reno, NV 89512 gmarion@dri.edu
------------------------------
Subject: racking
From: Derek Bisset <derek_bisset@telus.net>
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 11:56:41 -0800
It's time for me to think about racking again and I find myself with
different recommendations and a lot of uncertainty in judging outcomes.
I have usually racked once fairly early just after fermentation is underway
, a second time when fermentation is complete , and a third when clearing
has taken place .This last racking has been prior to placing in keg and
creating a light effervescence .In a sense there is another racking when
transferring to bottle which takes place as convenient .
These have seemed to me critical points in cider development . The first
racking just after fermentation started got somewhat clearer juice off the
gross lees and the second took the cider off the yeast . I have no way of
telling what effect the timing of these rackings had on flavour but I
suspect it matters .
Now I am trying to bring together various recommendations I have heard .
Assuming that I am aiming for some residual sweetness I should draw off the
juice after a week or so when a brown cap has formed . One difficulty here
I have found is that I can't judge when the cap has formed fully.
Out of interest I skimmed the cap off one batch and it reformed each day
until I decided to rack the juice off anyway. It is now fermenting nicely
with no yeast addition . I feel that if I had waited longer the
fermentation would have broken up the cap and the its usefulness would have
been lost .
I have read V. S. Charley saying that the more important racking takes
place with a gravity drop of 10-12 and there has been a major yeast build up .
It seems to me there differing ideas here . The brown cap thinking focuses
on removing nutrients while Charley is thinking of yeast removal . Should
the safest course be then to rack for both nutrient and yeast removal in
order to make fermentation as slow as possible ?
The recommendation I got in France was to rack up to four or five times and
decide the timing
by tasting , but I then don't know what I am tasting for until I get the
final result !
I should say that I have produced some full fruited ,"earthy", mouthfilling
ciders in the past similar to some I have tasted from Brittany that I like
very much but alongside some sharp, thin , off tasting batches that I don't
. But I think the main variables there have been the use of proper cider
apples against an overproportion of dessert and sharps . I wonder though if
the timing and number of rackings has had some effect .
------------------------------
Subject: RIBSTON PIPPEN
From: Dan Spoelstra <ssphoto@iserv.net>
Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 13:03:41 -0500
I'm excited, my first batch ever is bubbling like crazy.
I had a great batch of apples to work with - golden russet , spigold,
dolgo crab, hudson's golden gem,duchess & ribston pippen. And here is
my question. Does anyone know what a ribston looks like? I have some
question that what I planted as a bench graft 10 years ago is really a
ribston.
It is the only tree of about 25 that I have that I am not sure of and
it is making me crazy!
If anyone would care to give it a guess I can E- mail you photos of my
"ribston"
apples.
Many thanks to Mr. Dunn for his fine work and to all for the
interesting info in the DIGEST !
dan
------------------------------
Subject: drought resistant apple trees
From: "Ingels, Dr Stephen" <SIngels@nrh-ok.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 17:58:31 -0600
Greetings. In digest #1000 Mark Ellis commented on the need for drought
resistant apple trees in his part of Australia:
>So I think as orchardists we need to be a bit proactive in
>seeking to plant drought tolerant orchards in our drier areas. I
>expect the situation might be similar in some south western US
>areas as well.
I have just started my own hobby orchard in central Oklahoma (more
"great plains" than "southwest" in my opinion, but maybe of interest
anyway). The mean annual precipitation here is 33.4" (85 cm) with
record high 52" (132 cm) and record low 15.74" (40 cm). Summer high
temps usually include a few days over 100 Farenheit (38 Celsius). My
soil has a high clay content, especially deeper than 12" (30 cm).
To get to the point, MM111 rootstock was recommended to me by the county
extension service because of its relatively good drought tolerance, good
wind anchoring, and tolerance of heavy soil. The resulting trees are
said to be 75% to 80% of normal size. This fall I planted Grimes
Golden, Goldrush, Golden Russet, Honey Cider, Stokes Red, Priscilla,
King David, and Liberty, all on MM111 roots. Last spring I started to
make some trees with MM111 roots and a dwarfing interstem but the first
grafts didn't survive (due to poor technique I'm afraid) and I'll have
to try again.
It's too early, obviously, for me to report any personal experience with
these trees, but hopefully in a few years. I would be interested to
know more about Mark's climate and his trees, and also interested in
other suggestions on this topic.
Steve
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1008
*************************
