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Cider Digest #0983
From: cider-request@talisman.com
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Subject: Cider Digest #983, 29 July 2002
Cider Digest #983 29 July 2002
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
re: sulphurous (Bob and Winnie)
Sulphurous originators? (Mark)
Re: Cider Digest #982, 23 July 2002 ("Sheryl Wheeler")
Jonathon apples (Chaad@aol.com)
Kingston Black et al (David Pickering)
Tannin (David Pickering)
Idea for a cool fermenting "cellar" (Scott Smith)
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Subject: re: sulphurous
From: Bob and Winnie <natvwine@cut.net>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:40:32 -0600
Mark, were the apples sprayed with chemicals?
In my experience, this is the most commonnly overlooked source of
sulphur in musts.
Bob
> Subject: Sulphurous originators?
> From: "Mark Ellis"
> Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 18:35:24 +1000
>
> G'day All,
>
> Just about finished fermenting some cider which was an
> experiment with dessert apples just to see how things would
> turn out.
>
> Lot 1 was 80% Granny Smith and 20% Lady Williams
> Lot 2 was 90% Lady Williams and 10% Granny Smith
>
> Most people would be familiar with G.S but probably only
> Aussies would know L.W. which is quite an very late acid
> apple and keeps for months, basically picking it after the
> leaves fall and sweetens after extended storage.
>
> Anyhoo, before racking, Lot 1 had a heavy sulphorous head
> space in the fermenter, whilst Lot 2 was sweetly aromatic.
> Both Lot's were fermented with Saccharomyces bayanus (Lalvin
> EC-1118).
>
> Which leads me to the question. Are there juice
> characteristics endemic to certain apple varieties which
> effect yeast so as to produce these sulphur compounds? I
> thought that this action came from certain yeasts only??
>
> Will be interesting to see any discussion on this.
>
> Regards
>
> Mark E. in Oz
>
------------------------------
Subject: Sulphurous originators?
From: Mark <scaffnet@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:36:18 -0700 (PDT)
HI Mark,
I too am interested in a conversation about this
phenomenon (sulfurous cider) since I have had
that happen this year too and posted an almost
identical question a few weeks ago -- and got no
replies!
Please let us know what you hear.
Mark L
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #982, 23 July 2002
From: "Sheryl Wheeler" <shogun@aracnet.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 14:45:04 -0700
Hi, we grafted some dwarf cider trees last spring at the clackamas college
class and we just moved to dallas oregon. we still have them in pots and
want to plant them. should we wait till fall or go for it now. the soil
here is very hard should we dig holes and add new soil or plant and compost
on top. any advice or reference books? thank you, sheryl and son, barry
wheeler
------------------------------
Subject: Jonathon apples
From: Chaad@aol.com
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 19:19:10 EDT
I have access to a large number of Jonothan apples from 25 yr. old trees that
are growing in central Illinois, USA. I am building a grinder and press and
was wondering what it would take to make these apples suitable for cider and
what I could expect as far as ph and sugar when I got them off of the tree.
As this is my first attempt, I am not incredibly concerned with period or
all-natural at this point. I will make that leap in a later season, but for
now I would just like something drinkable. If I could do that with the
apples at hand, I would next year work at finding good bittersharps.
Also, I am interested in planting more suitable trees for future years. I
noticed on Mr. Lea's (excellent) website that there is a nursury in
Winchester, Illinois that lists several good cider varieties. Anyone who has
purchased from this nursury is invited to give me their impression of the
product and service, online or off.
I have found good sources of stainless 5 gallon Cornelious kegs and 15 gallon
removable top food grade plastic barrels. Would anyone recommend either of
these for fermenters, and if so which?
Thank you for indulging a newcomer with all of these questions, and I look
forward to any thoughts.
Chad Brown
------------------------------
Subject: Kingston Black et al
From: David Pickering <davidp@netwit.net.au>
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 20:48:23 +1000
Good to see the quote from #980 regarding the release by White Oak Cider
of what appears to be a 100% Kingston Black and the subsequent comments
from Dick Dunn on the subject (#981).
My best varietal cider has probably also been Kingston Black so that is
good agreement between the
UK, USA and Australia (my small part of Oz that is).
BUT......
I consider that Brown Snout is almost on a par with Kingston Black as
regards to suitability for varietal ciders. It may be that some personal
tastes would rate Brown Snout equal to or above Kingston Black.
AND......
My experience with the trees of these two cultivars in Australia
suggests that the Brown Snout is the more reliable bearer - better
growth and reduced biennial bearing. By all means have a good planting
of Kingston Black so that you can enjoy those years when everything goes
just right. But try a quantity of Brown Snout in similar numbers as
well. You will be pleasantly suprised at the resulting cider and will be
more likely to be able to make a varietal cider each year. Yes, Brown
Snout has small fruit, but it does have lots of them.
Perhaps we can figure out how to engineer modified biennial bearing so
that we could have Kingston Black in one year then Brown Snout in the next!
I accept Dick Dunn's comments on the diversity of cultivars out there to
make 'varietal ciders' but if there are a couple that do it well, then
go for them, and experiment with the others.
David Pickering 'Linden Lea' Orange NSW 2800 Australia
------------------------------
Subject: Tannin
From: David Pickering <davidp@netwit.net.au>
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 20:49:37 +1000
While recently doing some research into pomegranates, as one does .....
On the Purdue site
www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/morton/pomegranate.html
there are comments late in the article under the heading "Toxicity" that
excessive tannin consumption over a prolonged period can be 'detrimental
to health'.
Has anyone else seen similar references warning about tannin and what
sort of levels are suspect?
Is there just one tannin or is there good tannin and bad tannin etc etc
David Pickering 'Linden Lea' Orange NSW 2800 Australia
------------------------------
Subject: Idea for a cool fermenting "cellar"
From: Scott Smith <scott@cs.jhu.edu>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:36:43 -0400
I am planning my fermentation this winter and know that I am going to be
on the warm side (above 65F) in my basement if I just leave the
fermenters sitting out. Our 15 year-old house has forced air which
circulates pretty well so the basement doesn't stay cold enough. The
other areas like the garage are too variable in temperature. My goal is
to ferment at Warcollier's 5C which is 41F, but up to 10C would also be
fine.
My expectation is that the basement would actually be quite cool if I
could only isolate it from the rest of the house. So, here is my idea:
buy some big sheets of insulating styrofoam, and build a little cubby
out of it in the far corner of the basement. It would be something like
6'x4'x4' to hold maybe 8 5-gal fermenters. Only three walls of a box
would be built since the other three walls are provided by the basement
(two bsmt walls and the floor). I would carefully seal the edges to
minimize airflow. Since half of the "walls" would be the house basement
walls, and styrofoam is a very good insulator, my hope is the temp.
would be pretty close to the ground outside of the house at that point.
I would not be able to open the "cellar" overly often since it would
take a fair time to return to the low temp. I was not planing on
putting in a door, just lift the whole thing up to gain access (it would
not be permanently attached to the wall). For the thickness of the
foam, it will depend on what I can find, but my guess is 2" would be
fine. I also will probably need to layer some thin plywood on the
outside for structural support, unless I can find some thick and strong
enough foam.
Has anyone else tried something like this? Any reasons to expect it
would not get cold enough? I live in Baltimore, USDA zone 7. Any
suggestions for a good design would be appreciated. In any case, if I
get the thing off the ground I'll post a note on how it works this
winter.
Scott
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #983
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