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Cider Digest #1012
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Subject: Cider Digest #1012, 24 December 2002
Cider Digest #1012 24 December 2002
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
FW: Cider Digest #1011, 18 December 2002 (Philip Sugarman)
Tannin Levels at Mt. Vernon (DrewZimmer@aol.com)
RE: Issue 1011 ("James W Luedtke")
Tannin content (Ken Schramm)
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Subject: FW: Cider Digest #1011, 18 December 2002
From: Philip Sugarman <PSugarman@standrew.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 18:38:36 -0000
Dick
Cider digest is rapidly becoming too technical for me - it is a while since
I contributed. Are all your contributors commercial producers?
I make "Eastern" or Kentish style cider from mixed cookers and eaters, with
usually nothing else at all. Very small scale. There are 200 hundred acres
or so of neglected orchard where I was recently living in Kent, so I was
relaxed about achieving a good crop of my own few trees. Tons of fruit goes
to waste. In Northamptonshire I am struggling to find a similar source but
now have my own acreage to plant up.
I judge the mix from how they taste. Occasionally I add extra sugar or
honey with wine yeast when I fancy my cider strong and dry. I certainly
don't bother with any chemicals in the orchard or the cider shed. I only
rack it off once a few days before bottling, but perhaps to get more
residual sweetness I should rack off earlier. However its simple to sweeten
the cider with sugar or honey to taste once poured. I have never had a
bottle "go off" but sometimes they explode in summer.
The level of tannin in Eastern cider is low, I believe, but my cider is
always crystal clear. So clearing agents also seem unnecessary. Secondary
fermentation always occurs, but to a variable degree. Initially very acidic,
it improves greatly in the bottle, at least into the 4th year.
For variety, I compare mine with various real ciders on the market -
Thatcher's Cox and Westons organic are my favourite at present. I have
planted up cider varieties and old Eastern varieties e.g. Tom Putt, Sussex
Forge, Colonel Vaughn, to widen my scope for experimenting with the mix in
future years.
Am I missing something? Why is everybody so technical? Relax - Merry
Christmas!
Philip Sugarman.
------------------------------
Subject: Tannin Levels at Mt. Vernon
From: DrewZimmer@aol.com
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 17:52:24 EST
Regarding the current discussions on tannin levels in European cider
varieties grown in the U. S., preliminary results of testing at the WSU
Research Station at Mt. Vernon have produced some curious results. We used
the Lowenthal method for tannin determination on the following varieties:
Yarlington Mill, Vileberie, Taylor's Sweet, Foxwhelp, Brown Snout, Muscadet
de Dieppe and Chisel Jersey. These have, for the most part, been growing
since 1994 on M106 rootstock. The tannin levels we got were ten times less
than the LARS levels! I'm having trouble believing these numbers and I'm
quite concerned that there is something wrong with our titration process.
Although we have not previously performed this particular titration, we do
have guidance from the station's chemists and I am reasonably confident in
the technique. I've forwarded the procedure and data to Andrew Lea for his
review and comment in the hope that he can shed some light on the matter.
It is interesting, though, that the 2002 season was exceptionally dry and
although the trees were irrigated, there was more sun and less atmospheric
moisture than normal.
We still have juice samples left and can do the tests again with a corrected
procedure if warranted. I'll be happy to post the results when finalized.
Drew Zimmerman
Seattle
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Issue 1011
From: "James W Luedtke" <james.luedtke@cgi.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 07:42:45 -0600
It's great to see renewed activity in the digest, we all must have been
busy with harvest last month.
US grown bitter-types: Ripening dates, Tannins and cold-hardiness
First, a caveat. My cider varieties have just barely begun to bear
fruit, this was the 2nd cropping for most, and all the fruiting ones are
top-worked onto existing dessert types with unknown semi-dwarfing
rootstocks (but likely M-7 and M-26). So, I don't have a ton of data
from which to work, nevertheless:
Along with Ian Merwin, I find the ripening dates to be several weeks
ahead of published UK dates. For example, Bulmers Norman has ripened in
mid-September rather than mid-October, Breakwells Seedling in August vs
late September.
I have no way to accurately measure tannins, but as for bitterness, my
Breakwells are bitter to the point of being inedible, the rest had
little to no bitterness to them (Bulmers, Michelin, Muscadet De Dieppe,
and Yarlington Mill). As for astringency, again, the Breakwells are
probably the most astringent, next would be Yarlington Mill and Muscadet
de Dieppe, then Bulmers Norman, with Michelin coming up in the last,
bland place.
Mark Parranto outlined the effect of minus 35F on his orchard over
Christmas 2000. Although I am also in Minnesota, the coldest temperature
I saw that Christmas Eve was minus 20. I too, however, lost some trees,
including Foxwhelp on B-9 (but a top-worked graft survived), Tom Putt,
and Ashmeades Kernel. No variety suffered total loss, and all my Bulmers
Norman and Yarlington Mill survived, regardless of the rootstock.
Dolgo crab is sometimes suggested as a bitter-type substitute, so this
fall I pressed 4 gallons of Dolgo juice. Growing up, we knew this apple
was good for two things, pickles and jelly - they've got tons of pectin.
After reading the recent digests on keeving, I realize that I could have
tried it with this year's batch - oh well, another year comes all too
soon, so maybe I'll try it then. Anyway, the Dolgo juice was combined
with 3 gallons of blended dessert and cider apple juice, added ale yeast
to 5 gallons and Cote de Blanc to the other 3. I've kept the primary
fermenters in my unheated garage, temperatures have been in the 30 to
40F range. Gravity in the ale version has dropped about 30 points, the
Cote de Blanc has barely begun fermenting (5 weeks since yeast added).
I'm patiently, but of course eagerly, awaiting the final results.
------------------------------
Subject: Tannin content
From: Ken Schramm <schramk@mail.resa.net>
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 09:48:02 -0500
No lecture here, just a couple of surmises. Inconsistent technique
looks most plausible, but as I look at the possible causes of tannin
content disparity, three natural ones come to mind: Soil assay,
rainfall/irrigation practice and GDD accumulation rate. In particular,
I note the largest variance in my fruit quality in years of noted change
in GDD accumulation and/or change in the dates of pollination and
harvest, and in rainfall. My trees were pretty stressed this year in the
Great Lakes region (38 days without an inch of rainfall), and I didn't
do my usual rate of watering. My juice pressed out significantly sweeter
(about .005) and with much more character than in previous years. I
didn't measure the tannin, but I suspect by the taste it was higher than
usual. I am curious to know if the British/Normandy/US orchardists
irrigate to the "inch a week" rate that the grocery-store-fruit growers
here do, and if it has the effect of diminishing tannin and other
non-fermentable character in the fruit.
One other possibility: Normandy and GB may get less full sun than we get
in NY/New England and the Great Lakes.
Ken Schramm
Troy, Michigan
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End of Cider Digest #1012
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